New vocation video -- Baltimore Carmel

[Nunsuch]

There is a new vocation video from the oldest Carmel in the U.S.

 

[Guest]

.........".........I think that every person has a place in their heart that is monastic.  A monastery is also a place that is a sign that Peace and living together is possible...........".......a monastery isn't only a place, it is coming home to your own heart.........."..........

 

[GraceUk]

They don't look like proper Carmelites to me.

[Bonkira]

That's an interesting comment, because it clearly says that you think you have the measuring stick as to what a 'proper Carmelite' is. I would hope folks would restrain themselves from judging a religious based on their appearance and instead engage in charity of thought, deed, and speech.

I visited with them after I left my order and they have something very special there...deeply, DEEPLY prayerful community that is very thoughtful about their past, present, and future. All Carmels pray for the needs of the world but their presence in that is very different than what I experienced elsewhere. Their Carmel is certainly different but their presence in their community is an absolute powerhouse.

[GraceUk]

The Carmelite order is steeped in centuries of tradition. The habit is an important part of that tradition. If these sisters want to dispense with that they can but why call themselves Carmelites. I don't think they should cherry pick what bits of Carmel they like and reject the rest. Sorry I don't approve. I am certainly not the only person who feels this way.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bonkira]

Why does it matter if you or anyone else approves or not? Their vocation is not your vocation, and you are not their religious Authority. They didn't enter Carmel for you.

Again, it would be nice to see charity in thought, deed, and action rather than judgemental opinions where they were not asked for.

[GraceUk]

You have missed the point completely.  They are not abiding by the Carmelite way of life because they know better. They shouldn't call themselves Carmelites. And these white robes are ridiculous. They look more like Druids than Carmelites. I was quite frankly shocked and appalled when I saw this video.  I cant believe this is allowed.

[Bonkira]

Are you the superior general of a Carmelite order? If not, then maybe take it easy and concentrate on compassion for yourself and for others. They are  in good standing with Rome and their order no matter what you think or what you feel is ridiculous from your place outside the order and outside the monastery. Maybe pray about it and consider why the actions of others are so appalling to you that you feel you need to sit in judgement.

[Antigonos]

I confess I was surprised to see that the sisters have stopped wearing the habit -- any habit, since Carmel is known for its traditionalism, but it is their decision.  I wonder if they only wear donated clothes, or go shopping?  Aren't Carmelites enclosed?

The white robes, which look like djellabas to me, are worn at Bet Jamal by the nuns there.  Simple, utilitarian, I can't see any problem.

As has been noted, the habit is an external sign; the quality of the vocation is the important thing. 

[Dymphna]

20 minutes ago, Antigonos said:

I confess I was surprised to see that the sisters have stopped wearing the habit -- any habit, since Carmel is known for its traditionalism, but it is their decision.  I wonder if they only wear donated clothes, or go shopping?  Aren't Carmelites enclosed?

I read an article about this Carmel and it said that they wear hand-me-downs, so no need to go shopping. And it's probably environmentally friendly.

For me, a habit is about visibility as a religious, about being a sign (sometimes encouraging, sometimes challenging) that a way of life which puts God radically first is real. And of course about approachability. Which means that for contemplative sisters the habit is, in my opinion, actually less important than for some apostolic sisters, who may work in an environment where this visibilty is needed.

[cruciatacara]

I know of another Carmel that doesn't wear a habit unless they are attending Mass or a public event. When they are alone in their monastery, they wear ordinary clothes but put on a white robe to recite the Hours of the Office. this makes it easy for them to do things like gardening or cleaning or other chores without getting their habits dirty and yet also shows respect for the chapel as a special place for prayer. I don't think this whole habit thing should really be an issue. If a community is faithful to Rome, what else matters? Especially for the cloistered communities - their main function is prayer after all. I think it is very disrespectful and uncharitable to pass judgement on a community based on what they wear, especially if one doesn't know the community personally. 

[GraceUk]

 I dont make the rules. 

Canon law 669 S1 

Religious are to wear the habit of their institute made according to the norm of proper law as a sign of their consecration and as a witness of poverty.

 

I was especially surprised that most of them seem to have their hair professionally styled.  I am only thankful that most Carmels have not gone along this route.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You have missed the point completely.  They are not abiding by the Carmelite way of life because they know better. They shouldn't call mselves Carmelites. And these white robes are ridiculous. They look more like Druids than Carmelites. I was quite frankly shocked and appalled when I saw this video.  I cant believe this is allowed.

[Antigonos]

Well, it's obviously not a community for you.  And I confess to a liking for a habit or distinctive form of dress, but when one looks at old photos, it's easy to get the impression that certain orders were in a kind of competition to see who could have the most extravagant and uncomfortable habits, while many of the "modified" habits of today seem graceless and sometimes downright ugly.

As to hair styling, one kibbutz I know actually sent a member to learn to be a hairdresser, so that the kibbutz could save money, and another member became a certified dietician in order to develop the menus necessary for certain members.  In an order devoted to poverty, having "specialist" sisters which benefit the entire community seems an intelligent idea.  So who knows?  Or perhaps a local hairdresser donates his/her services.

But the bottom line is that these are decisions of the community itself.  I am sure that the local bishop or whoever is their superior must be aware and allows these "untraditional" practices.

There's an old Jewish joke about a Jew who led the life of a complete reprobate, defrauding people and committing other various crimes, but after he had a mild heart attack, he got scared and began to dress in the Orthodox fashion.  The next heart attack killed him, and, when he stood in Divine judgement, the Holy One, Blessed  Be He, asked him why he shouldn't be sent to hell.  The Jew answered, "Master of the Universe!  Just look -- I'm wearing the required ritual fringes and a large yarmulke!  And note, please, the length of my beard!"

"I see the beard, Sammy" God replied, "but where is the Jew?"

Edited February 18, 2019 by Antigonos

[GraceUk]

That's a good post Antigonos. And you've certainly got a point. Just because a nun wears a traditional habit doesn't make her any more holy than another individual. But I still think that abandoning the habit completely for enclosed  Carmelites is not a good decision.  I don't think any Carmels in the UK have done this.

[Sister Leticia]

1 hour ago, GraceUk said:

I don't think any Carmels in the UK have done this.

Actually... There's at least one Carmel in the UK which no longer has a "traditional" Carmelite habit (whatever one might mean by that). The sisters wear plain, simple skirts, blouses, sweaters etc, mostly in brown and white, and choose whether or not to wear a simple veil as well. They wear white cloaks in chapel. 

https://carmelglasgow.co.uk/meet_the_sisters.html

I know some Carmelite sisters are concerned about the cost of buying a particular type of cloth for their habit, versus wearing second-hand clothes. And as others have already said, the argument for wearing distinctive clothes as a witness isn't an issue when the community is enclosed. 

That aside, though, like some others here I was saddened to see the vehemence of your reaction. You watched a video of some very prayerful, holy women, and not only focused on their outward appearance, but have said in several posts that you disapprove of them, they're not proper Carmelites, shouldn't call themselves Carmelites etc. Regardless of the witness of their lives and prayer, you're judging them solely by their appearance. Luckily, the only judgement which matters to them - and indeed should matter to any of us - is God's: and as God himself said to the prophet Samuel, he does not see as we see, because humans look at outward appearances, whereas God looks at the heart. (1 Samuel 16)