Date a non Catholic

[little2add]

7 hours ago, Lilllabettt said:

How did you deal when your kids learned their parent was in an objective state of mortal sin?

We're all sinners, dear!  our children and grand children are why we married in the Catholic Church, to set an (good) example, to live in a righteous way, etc!    

7 hours ago, Lilllabettt said:

Idk if you're being hyperbolic about your spouse being as good as anyone could be... but that's definitely not true.

I thank the good lord, Jesus Christ  everyday for my many  blessings, especially my spouse.    

PS: we both live our lives the best we can, neither of us is Perfect but retry we try 

Edited December 4, 2018 by little2add

[Lilllabettt]

20 minutes ago, little2add said:

We're all sinners, dear!  our children and grand children are why we married in the Catholic Church, to set an (good) example, to live in a righteous way, etc!   [...]

PS: we both live our lives the best we can, neither of us is Perfect but retry we try 

Were all sinners but some of us are unrepentant sinners. Your spouse was giving a pretty bad example to your kids, not living the faith, wouldnt you say? 

I think, if you had been successful raising your kids to be faithful,  that you would have said so.  If that's the case, the solemn baptismal promises you made to God were broken... that's a tragedy. Its serious.  

It's really confusing and difficult for kids when a parent sends the message that their faith is no big deal. 

 

[tinytherese]

 

9 hours ago, Lilllabettt said:

I dont agree with you totally that it wouldn't be our fault. When we get married or have children, God places the good of a soul in our care. If we dont give a good example or fail to pray or they lose grace because of our fault, we can be held responsible for that.  It takes trust in God to get married or no one would do it. One of my favorite prayers is this one, which makes repairs for lost graces:

I agree that we need to properly live out the Catholic faith that we profess to believe in and that kids can be turned off by the Catholic faith if family members, in particular their parents are bad examples.

However, if you 

1. are properly living the Catholic faith

2. strive for genuine holiness 

3. pray for your spouse and kids to be authentic practicing Catholics who are holy and uphold the faith, and that your kids do the same for their kids

4. pray for God's help in doing this

5. seek advice from others and properly follow their advice

and your spouse and or kids are still not practicing Catholics then it's not your fault.  How could it be? What else could you have done?

Edited December 4, 2018 by tinytherese

[little2add]

2 hours ago, Lilllabettt said:

Were all sinners but some of us are unrepentant sinners. Your spouse was giving a pretty bad example to your kids, not living the faith, wouldnt you say? 

I think, if you had been successful raising your kids to be faithful,  that you would have said so.  If that's the case, the solemn baptismal promises you made to God were broken... that's a tragedy. Its serious.  

It's really confusing and difficult for kids when a parent sends the message that their faith is no big deal. 

 

Your words are rather harsh and  presumptuous for  someone you don’t know.   

Thank you for your concern even if it’s  terribly misguided 

[Lilllabettt]

3 hours ago, tinytherese said:

 

I agree that we need to properly live out the Catholic faith that we profess to believe in and that kids can be turned off by the Catholic faith if family members, in particular their parents are bad examples.

However, if you 

1. are properly living the Catholic faith

2. strive for genuine holiness 

3. pray for your spouse and kids to be authentic practicing Catholics who are holy and uphold the faith, and that your kids do the same for their kids

4. pray for God's help in doing this

5. seek advice from others and properly follow their advice

and your spouse and or kids are still not practicing Catholics then it's not your fault.  How could it be? What else could you have done?

Ultimately every one makes their own choices in life, right. So, we arent responsible for the ultimate decision someone makes about whether to follow Christ.

But we ARE answerable for what we are responsible for. We will answer for the times we did not give a good example; for the times we disedified our children or neglected to show charity to our spouse; for the times we slacked off and didnt pray as we ought or sacrifice and do penance as we ought, for the souls entrusted to us.

Maybe by our action or inaction we lead a soul into temptation.  It is their decision whether to give in to temptation, but independent of that choice we are responsible for leading them to the yawning precipice. 

In a lifetime of marriage / 2 decades of marriage, serious mistakes and omissions will be made. That's why we have to beg God to write straight with our crooked lines and to show mercy to us. Taking responsibility for a soul in marriage or by having children is a massive charge and requires so, so much trust in God, ongoing repentance and recourse to his mercy. It is not for the faint of heart.  

[Lilllabettt]

1 hour ago, little2add said:

Your words are rather harsh and  presumptuous for  someone you don’t know.   

Thank you for your concern even if it’s  terribly misguided 

Heres harsh: the worst murderer and serial rapist who is aware of the gravity of his sin is closer to the kingdom than the man who excuses small sins. We say  "no one is perfect". But Jesus commands: be perfect as your Heavely Father is perfect. We say: "I'm doing the best I can." But Jesus proclaims: my grace is sufficient for you.  God's mercy is abundant but it is only offered to those who acknowledge their failure to do the right that is in their power .  If holiness is beyond you, then sin is not your fault, then what need have you for mercy? Therefore you will receive none.

[little2add]

We must heed the command of our Savior given in Matthew 5:48 to "be perfect" just as our heavenly Father is perfect. We must be careful, though, not to apply this command to areas in which Jesus never intended for it to be applied.

He was speaking of the love that is to characterize those who are children of God. That love is to be complete, extending even to those who are your enemies, who hate you and spitefully use you. 

 

[Lilllabettt]

2 hours ago, little2add said:

We must heed the command of our Savior given in Matthew 5:48 to "be perfect" just as our heavenly Father is perfect. We must be careful, though, not to apply this command to areas in which Jesus never intended for it to be applied.

He was speaking of the love that is to characterize those who are children of God. That love is to be complete, extending even to those who are your enemies, who hate you and spitefully use you. 

 

Well, his point relevant to this discussion is that the imperfection of the human condition is not an excuse.  We cannot lie back and rest easy comfortable because "everyone" sins and "I'm only human." To be fully human is to be perfect in love of God;  holiness is an effort to become more human. 

Btw, for anyone reading, this is the website little2add copied and pasted from their post from: http://www.centervilleroad.com/articles/perfect.html

 

[Anomaly]

Am I mistaken, or is liklabett saying that little2add’s wife is in an objective state of mortal sin because she is not Catholic?

[little2add]

Amen 

BTW:  it’s an excellent article 

 

[Lilllabettt]

10 minutes ago, Anomaly said:

Am I mistaken, or is liklabett saying that little2add’s wife is in an objective state of mortal sin because she is not Catholic?

No she is a non practicing catholic. Or that is what I understand. And, who knows, perhaps she went to confession the other day. But.

This is why as a kid I wanted to reject Catholicism. Because my mom and dad did not go to church.  For my mom, the non practicing catholic, it was a mortal sin. For my dad, it was nothing, or maybe it a small sin related to not keeping the sabbath. It freaked me out, that my mom had a ticket to hell in her pocket and we were all going to just wait and see if it would end up punched. So what my parents told me, is that it was ok. Skipping mass, not going to confession, porn, and so on, are not a big deal. The Church teaching is simplistic or wrong.  That made me feel better about sin but it made it much less likely to grow up and be a faithful Catholic. Now, that conversation happened but it doesn't have to for the same point to be made. When one parent is a non practicing catholic, and that's treated as a humdrum non tragedy, the example teaches that being a non practicing Catholic is an acceptable option.

So, as I said I think in my first post in this thread... I wouldn't marry a non Catholic if I could "help" it - but it's way better to marry a devout Protestant, Muslim, Jew, or atheist vs a non practicing Catholic 

[little2add]

1 hour ago, Lilllabettt said:

mass, not going to confession, porn, and so on, are not a big deal. The Church teaching is simplistic or wrong.  

Sorry to hear that you disrespect your mom and dad when you  grew up.     

 Do you get along with them today ?    How are they doing,  are they still together ?  

 

[Lilllabettt]

2 hours ago, little2add said:

Sorry to hear that you disrespect your mom and dad when you  grew up.     

 Do you get along with them today ?    How are they doing,  are they still together ?  

 

Well, I guess you could say the Church "disrespected" my mom. The Church teaching was that by not giving a care if she went to Mass on Sunday, she was in an objective state of mortal sin and risking hellfire.

So, yes. Very disrespectful of her choices. But God is no respecter of persons. Is He.

My parents are divorced. My mom no longer has a ticket to hell in her pocket; my dad does. 2 of 4 kids, including me, are practicing catholic. 

[little2add]

 I read what you said about your mom and your wedding,  on another thread...

 It may be none of my business but have you forgiven her?  

 Sometimes you have to overlook  Bad behavior and be thankful your parents cared enough to bring you into this world and they cared enough to raise you up.   

 Both your parents must be in a lot of pain,  I don’t think Heaven can help them, maybe you can!  

[Lilllabettt]

1 hour ago, little2add said:

 I read what you said about your mom and your wedding,  on another thread...

 It may be none of my business but have you forgiven her?  

 Sometimes you have to overlook  Bad behavior and be thankful your parents cared enough to bring you into this world and they cared enough to raise you up.   

 Both your parents must be in a lot of pain,  I don’t think Heaven can help them, maybe you can!  

Uhhhhh Heaven definitely can help them. This is the kind of thing you say that is troubling. Maybe you dont mean that literally but it's still a bizarre thing for a Christian to say.

Sometimes asking a person to be supportive or other-centered, is like asking them to get taller. It's never going to happen and it may be an unfair question if they really dont have the capacity to answer yes. So, you have to stop asking, and accept the person for who they are with all their limitations.  This, a long with some boundaries, is how I have a good relationship with my parents today. 

Neither of this is here or there re the topic at hand. I repeat Being raised as a catholic by a non practicing catholic and a nominal protestant was as confusing as fickle frack. 

 

Edited December 5, 2018 by Lilllabettt