In A Catholic Church Where Even The Pope Covers For Sexual Abuse, Everywhere Is As Bad As Boston

[Guest]

"Even more profound is the charge by an Argentinian woman who says the sexual abuse of her son was covered up by this pope, who had her forcibly removed from his office when she tried to report the crime when he was archbishop of Buenos Aires, and then known as Cardinal Jorge Bergoglio. “Bergoglio was aware of my complaint,” says Beatriz Varela, whose son was awarded monetary damages from the church by a civil court. “Everyone knows and everyone remains silent, so they’re all accomplices.”

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2018/08/28/pope-francis-knew-cardinal-mccarrick-sexual-abuse-catholic-churchcolumn/1109251002/

Edited August 28, 2018 by Guest

[dUSt]

Josh, what are some of your ideas to renew the church?

[Guest]

 Excellent point - run out of props.

[Guest]

8 hours ago, dUSt said:

Josh, what are some of your ideas to renew the church?

Obviously for starters lifting the celibacy ban and allowing married priest's or ones with the option  so there's more to choose from. It's freaking commonsense but yet it's always objected too like it's the stupidest idea ever. For real Dust this is all messed up to the highest degree. I remember your post about the Billboard over Missouri movie when everyone started appaulding to what the woman said in the movie. I tried to find the post but couldn't find it. But it's starting to get to that point. Where we're becoming complicit. We have Bishops saying things to the media like the victims need to look at the skeletons in their own closet. The Bishop today saying Pope Francis has other things to worry about like Climate change and we're not going to go down this rabbit hole. W T F ?

Edited August 29, 2018 by Guest

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Josh said:

Where we're becoming complicit. We have Bishops saying things to the media like the victims need to look at the skeletons in their own closet. The Bishop today saying Pope Francis has other things to worry about like Climate change and we're not going to go down this rabbit hole.

I think that we do have a massive problem in The Church; however, not all are complicit - nor are all bishops making outlandish statements which reveal they do not grasp the seriousness of recent terrible scandals.  If we are going to write all off, not just some or even many, then it is probably an invitation to despair of The Church.  Jesus has told us

"And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, 13 and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. 14 Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." Matthew Chapter 26.

Hence. who are we going to trust and put our faith in as we continue to work through, in various ways, this terrrible time in our history?   And at this time, we are all called to prayer and penance as we humbly ask The Lord to indeed renew His Church and grant us the insight and motivation to work towards renewal wherever we might be able.

I love this prayer: "Come Holy Spirit and fill the hearts of all the faithful, please kindle in us the Fire of Thy Divine Love.  Then send forth Your Spirit - and You will be created and You will renew the face of the earth"  In the final analysis, it is not our work, it is that work Jesus will accomplish through us.

Edited August 29, 2018 by BarbaraTherese

[Guest]

2 hours ago, BarbaraTherese said:

"And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, 13 and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. 14 Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." Matthew Chapter 26.

 

We probably don't agree but I recognize Protestant Church's and Non Denominational Church's as part of the Rock. My buddy who I work with to get people clean water in Uganda is a Pastor and they meet in a outdoor area every Sunday. They are part of that Rock. I believe Churches that believe in the Trinity are part of the Rock. Also you have the Orthodox Church's.

I'm Catholic and believe this is the Church Jesus started and that the gates of hell won't prevail against it. Although that doesn't mean I'm going to continue to go along blindly with things if it gets to the point where it's obvious those in leadership don't care. These Bishops I quoted speak for me as a Catholic. I'm not comfortable with what they are saying. I'm disgusted by it. I'm not being self righteous. I know God is disgusted by my actions as well. I'm the devil a good majority of the time in life. Thank God for Confession.

I'm happy there was a Reformation. It was needed. I'm also very aware that when my poor friend in Uganda gathers on Sunday with the people of his Church right there Christ is in the midst of them. Where 2 or 3 are gathered in his name there He is. They are part of the Rock that Jesus promised the gates of hell won't prevail against. 

9 minutes ago, Josh said:

Although that doesn't mean I'm going to continue to go along blindly with things if it gets to the point where it's obvious those in leadership don't care. These Bishops I quoted speak for me as a Catholic. I'm not comfortable with what they are saying. I'm disgusted by it. 

Excuse me the one who spoke today was a Cardinal. The one who said Pope Francis has more important things to worry about.

Edited August 29, 2018 by Guest

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, Josh said:

Excuse me the one who spoke today was a Cardinal. The one who said Pope Francis has more important things to worry about.

Actually they were both Cardinals. The one before said abuse victims should worry about the skeletons in their own closet.

[Guest]

My buddy in Uganda leading his Church. 

Matthew 18:20  For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them.”

The gates of hell will not prevail.

 

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Josh said:

We probably don't agree but I recognize Protestant Church's and Non Denominational Church's as part of the Rock. My buddy who I work with to get people clean water in Uganda is a Pastor and they meet in a outdoor area every Sunday. They are part of that Rock. I believe Churches that believe in the Trinity are part of the Rock. Also you have the Orthodox Church's.

I'm Catholic and believe this is the Church Jesus started and that the gates of hell won't prevail against it. Although that doesn't mean I'm going to continue to go along blindly with things if it gets to the point where it's obvious those in leadership don't care. These Bishops I quoted speak for me as a Catholic. I'm not comfortable with what they are saying. I'm disgusted by it. I'm not being self righteous. I know God is disgusted by my actions as well. I'm the devil a good majority of the time in life. Thank God for Confession.

I'm happy there was a Reformation. It was needed. I'm also very aware that when my poor friend in Uganda gathers on Sunday with the people of his Church right there Christ is in the midst of them. Where 2 or 3 are gathered in his name there He is. They are part of the Rock that Jesus promised the gates of hell won't prevail against. 

Excuse me the one who spoke today was a Cardinal. The one who said Pope Francis has more important things to worry about.

Hi again, Josh.  Actually, I think that we do broadly agree.  While I firmly believe that The Catholic Church alone has absolutely all necessary for salvation and holiness in our journey through life - i.e. The Mass and The Sacraments.  I also firmly believe that The Holy Spirit is not a snob and does not only act within the confines of Catholicism - The Spirit blows wherever He Will.  In fact, I think that other Christian denominations can have things to teach us and things we really need and must learn.  I also firmly believe "where two or more are gathered in My Name, there I Am in the midst of them" and this pertains certainly to other Christian faith professions or denominations.  And are we to snub Jesus and His Holy Spirit!!!..............Gold is wherever it is found.

I have certainly met wonderful and good people from other denominations and also even from those who are atheists.  And I believe that all that is good in our world comes from God.  When I lived in my previous suburb, beset by poverty and every kind of vice there is I think, I was rather often quite overcome by the goodness in the least expected in a general sort of sense.  And all that is good comes from God.  Does not mean they are all good, just as any good in any person does not mean they are all good........including Catholics   We can be very sure of that as Scripture tells us.  Only God is Good Scripture tells us again.

I also believe that while we have all necessary for salvation and holiness, there is nothing more nor the equivalent anywhere else- I do believe that there is no way we can live up to such a wondrous gift.  We all fall short I hold, and some more than others.  I also believe that "the rock" on which Jesus built His Church is the Catholic Church - while other denominations come under the umbrella of The Catholic Church instituted by Jesus.  To me, that is what the Dogma Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus means i.e. no salvation outside The Church. 

Quote

Although that doesn't mean I'm going to continue to go along blindly with things if it gets to the point where it's obvious those in leadership don't care.

I do not believe we should either.  It was my problem too with the pre V2 days because very often there was no way that the behaviour of some professional religious Catholics in my experience back then could be reconciled with Scripture.  There was no reconciliation to be had!!! I felt even in my teens something would not gel, something was amiss.  Thankfully we had an in depth study of Matthew in college. Vatican II enabled me to breathe again and rest easy and resolve my conflict.  I am definitely NOT an advocate of blind obedience and such obedience is not advocated any more as in pre V2 days although it still does exist sadly and some want to bring blind obedience back.  In fact, I have read that many religious probably did leave in the great exodus from religious orders because they were expected to think for themselves and not be told exactly what to do and think.  Truth might be that they no longer knew how to think for themselves after almost a lifetime often in religious life of blind obedience.  I think that can apply to laity too.

Because someone does not agree with what I might have to state which agrees with hierarchy, does not mean at all that I am therefore - and that it follows - acting in blind obedience in agreeing with something hierarchy has stated.  Not at all!  Although you never have, Josh.

If I have a problem with something, then I believe I am called to identify what it might be and why - and how I can resolve that problem and that might mean some sort of action.  "See Judge Act" still very much applies and always will. I believe we are called to be thinking Children of God and brothers and sisters of Jesus in Him - and to grow in maturity in our journey and spirituality.

I am glad there was a Reformation too and that it was needed - much good came out of it which does not mean that it was all good.  I read somewhere or other that reformation works outside of an institution upon an institution while revolution comes from inside the institution acting for change from within.  Although I do think that Luther never initially meant for things to go as far as they did - it became a rolling stone that did gather moss and grew and grew out of control rambling all over the place.  Different beliefs were re-forming everywhere and calling themselves different churches with related beliefs.  Luther wanted to start a revolution that become a reformation.

Absolutely, thank God for the Sacrament of Reconciliation in Catholicism

where Jesus

in His Absolute Love and Mercy waits

in a quite concrete manner.

(A Sacrament is what it signifies)

God bless, Josh - and keep on keeping on thinking for yourself with a broad and open mind.  I pray I can do likewise.  " In essentials unity, in non essentials liberty - and in all things love".  

"If you are going through hell, keep going" (Winston Churchill)