More Than 300 Predator Priests In Pennsylvania Protected By Catholic Church

[Peace]

@Josh you raise an interesting point. You seem to suggest that allowing married priests would reduce the number of homosexuals among the clergy. But I am not sure that homosexuals are any more likely to abuse children than straight people. Presumably if you reduced the number of homosexual priests and left everything else the same, you would simply see more young girls being abused than young boys. The solution is to target and remove pedophiles, not homosexuals (although there may be other good reasons to discourage homosexual priests).

I actually like the idea of expanding the number of married clergy, but I have not seen any strong evidence to suggest that allowing married clergy will reduce child abuse. The problem is that the men who committed these crimes are pedophiles, not that they are celibate. Naturally, if merely celibacy were the issue, you would see priests sleeping with adult female parishioners, not children. This is true with any celibate man (including myself) who is not a pedophile. If I am going to engage in sin because I get tired of being celibate, I am going to a nightclub and trying to pick up a grown woman to sleep with. I am not going to look for an opportunity to molest an 8 year old child. I don't care how long I have not had sex for, I simply am not going to go out and molest a child because I am not a pedophile. If you think about it from that standpoint you can see that there is not really any link between celibacy and pedophilia.

[Guest]

@Peace From my understanding 8 out of 10 cases of abuse are male on male. I agree when you're talking young boys and not teenagers then that's a pedophile issue. But a lot of the cases have been abuse on teenagers. That is no question a homosexual issue. If married clergy were allowed you would possibly/ probably have some Priests abusing female teenagers. Becuase again if it's an age under teenage years then that's pedophilia.  Although I'm not convinced that if you have a large pool to pick from the straight men that do get in who are married or may marry would be the types to hook up with female teenagers. If anything they would be more likely I think to cause scandal by hooking up with adult females in the Church. Which probably already happens now with some Priests. Mortal sin for sure but nowhere close to the filth that has happened in the past with the sex abuse scandals. I agree with you completely that celibacy is not the cause for pedophilia. But a lot of these cases are Priests abusing teenagers. And Seminaries like "Uncle" McCarricks where there's gays having sex. And guys like McCarrick who are ring leading it. The more straight men in the mix the tougher it's going to be for this stuff to be allowed to fester and flourish in seminaries like it seems to have up until this point.

Edited August 18, 2018 by Guest

[Guest]

38 minutes ago, Josh said:

If married clergy were allowed you would possibly/ probably have some Priests abusing female teenagers. 

Then again a good chance you wouldn't. Becuase we have straight priest's now and they aren't sexually abusing female teenagers.

I guess it's still pedophilia when it's teenage boys but there's no denying it's a homosexual issue at that point as well. 

I'm with you though if I fail at being celibate it's not going to be with an 8 year old or a 15 year old. It will be with an adult.

Edited August 18, 2018 by Guest

[Ash Wednesday]

There are also cultural and spiritual problems in the seminaries. I would think it would be harder for someone who is gay to avoid temptation when they are in close quarters or spend a lot of time with other men. It's not the kind of environment that would protect someone's soul and allow them to grow in holiness, which is what seminaries are supposed to be. While not the same as abuse with young children and adolescents, there are cases of would-be seminarians that left because they were harassed by other men, and clergy within the Church that are harassed by their own peers and superiors of the same sex. 

I would also be curious to find out how many gay priests harbor lenient and lax attitudes about the sexual teachings of the Church. But there are no real studies out there about this that I know of. Certainly the Church is rife with priests that are this way regardless of their sexuality, but I do wonder about it.

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, Josh said:

I guess it's still pedophilia when it's teenage boys but there's no denying it's a homosexual issue at that point as well. 

I had to look up the definition of pedophilia to see what age it starts under. The definition is.......Pedophilia is defined as the fantasy or act of sexual activity with children who are generally age 13 years or younger. Pedophiles are usually men and can be attracted to either or both sexes. How well they relate to adults of the opposite sex varies.

 

So yeah this backs what im saying. A lot of the abuse has been with males over the age of 13. Which makes it a male attraction/homosexual issue.

3 hours ago, Ash Wednesday said:

If the screening process in the seminaries becomes more strict as it should, they could allow for married priests if the shortage becomes dire.  My stance is neutral on it, and I'm leaving that up to God and whatever his providence will determine in the future. But I personally feel that tackling this at the seminary level right now is the most urgent situation, as relaxing any celibacy rules would be a significant change from centuries of practice so that decision is not going to be made quickly because there is going to be a lot of debate about it. However, the process for cleaning up the seminaries can and must start now. That includes screening anyone with same-sex attraction.  This does not mean that gay men are necessarily pedophiles or ephebophiles. But given that such a high percentage of these cases are same-sex, it's dishonest to ignore that.  Even Pope Francis has reaffirmed that gay men should not be priests. We have to quit worrying about hurting feelings and do what's right. 

Exactly

Edited August 18, 2018 by Guest

[Kateri89]

I’m from the diocese of Pittsburgh so let me give my two cents because I’m sickened that this happened in my own backyard.  I read the intro of the report as well as the section about the Pittsburgh diocese when it was released Tuesday night.  Though I didn’t recognize any of the priests accused of actual abuse, I did recognize three priests who covered up.  Naming names matters so I’ll be damned if I’m going to tread carefully here.  One name was Ted Rutkowski.  He was the priest in my parish when I was growing up and there were always rumors that he was an alcoholic but never anything more than that.  After I saw his name in the report being involved with a cover up, I looked on the parish website in the history where he was mentioned as leaving due to “health reasons” (one of the euphemisms the report says has been used frequently instead of being transparent).  Now whether or not he was an alcoholic, I don’t know but I certainly have no trust in that parish anymore.  The other names are David Zubik (our current “Bishop”) and Donald Wuerl (our former “Bishop” and now “Cardinal”).  I’ve met both of them and remember Wuerl from his days as our Bishop.  The fact that both of these men covered up for the abusers and reassigned them to other parishes thus endangering more people is evil of the vilest kind.  It is my belief that all three of these men along with everyone else involved in the cover ups should be instantly laicized and excommunicated.  If there is any chance for criminal charges, I pray that justice will be done.  As for the predators, I’m a firm believer that each and everyone of them should be castrated and thrown in prison for the rest of their lives.  The enormity of damage done by many of our clergy affects not only the victims of the abuse and their loved ones, but the faithful laity and innocent priests who will now have to struggle to regain the trust of the people that they didn’t deserve to lose to begin with.  

 

As for the issue of homosexuality in the priesthood and religious life, let me go further to say that I believe that it is demonic.  I used to work in a hospital with a Franciscan friar who was homosexual.  While I have no idea if he ever abused anyone or covered anything up, I do know that he was openly opposing Church teaching on sexuality.  I distinctly remember him talking about the guy he went to prom with when he was in high school and how in love they were.  I also remember him congratulating one of the doctors I worked with who was a lesbian and had just met another woman online.  I’m guilty of not saying anything to him at the time and I haven’t seen him in years nor do I know which order he belonged to but he never should have been allowed to enter religious life.  I’m not advocating for cruelty to people with same sex attraction but it is clear to me that it’s not simply disordered.  There are plenty of people living with deep-seated issues that aren’t plaguing our Church and our society.  Issues of sexual depravity including homosexuality and gender fluidity and all other inanity are destroying our Church and civilization as we know it.  We need to fast and pray and quite frankly we need an exorcism of the entire Church if possible.  We need to weed out all of the evil in the Church and start fresh.  I’m sure that more and more faithful will leave but we need a reform and to rebuild from the ashes.  I ask all of you to please pray firstly for the victims of the abuse that they will have healing and know that we are on their side and that they might see God through us since they never saw Him through the men who were supposed to be His disciples.  Secondly, I ask you to pray for all priests who are innocent in this debacle that they will persevere in holiness and courage.  Thirdly, I ask you to pray for all the lay faithful who, like myself, are truly undergoing the most difficult test of faith right now that God will show us He is real and always with us.  Finally, tough as it may be, I ask that everyone pray for the guilty, that they will have true repentance and contrition, and that God will have mercy on their souls.

[Ash Wednesday]

@Kateri89

I am so sorry this happened at your own diocese. Some of what you described is actually similar to what happened in my own diocese. My own parish priest was removed for "treatment" -- at the time I was told it was for alcoholism, which it may well have been but I didn't know about the whole story until last year, and I found out because it was a matter of public record. After "treatment" he was moved to another diocese. After this, other people lodged complaints about him. I do not know what those were, but after that he was retired and placed on "medical leave" -- eventually laicized and defrocked.

The long and short of it, as far as in my diocese and the lawsuits on the record, he abused two boys. However there are others who have also come forward about this priest, including one who was a seminarian and his cousin, both around 18 years old. In comparison, this priest wasn't a very old priest, either.

People cracked jokes but I was pretty young at the time and didn't realize they were joking about his sexuality. ("He REALLY likes those flashy, sparkly vestments if you know what I mean.") He also did ridiculous things like one time instead of giving a sermon, he actually had a clown mime come in and do a performance and one of our parishioners walked out. He was very modernist and "happy clappy." And people wonder why I'm "conservative" -- it's because I was raised on this garbage, watched almost all of my peers and brothers fall away, and I'm just sick of it.

Kateri, I will keep your intentions and especially the Dioceses in PA in my rosary tomorrow.

 

[chrysostom]

6 hours ago, chrysostom said:

Since a grand jury is intended to be preliminary to a trial, why is the Pennsylvania AG investing so much in it when it has zero chance of leading to trial? In fact, there never seemed to be any intention of leading it to trial. Weird for a grand jury report.

Following up on my own comment...I guess the upshot is that the motivation of the AG seems clear enough. Since there was never going to be a real trial, with all the due process it requires, the AG instead went for a trial by media. And by gum did he get it.

[Anomaly]

The sexual abuse, the rape, and the cover up has been going on for many, many decades, even after it was uncovered and proven beyond a doubt.  And still the Catholic Church officials lie and cover up and enable the continuation of te this harm being inflicted on innocents.   I’ve seen it myself when I was a practicing Catholic.  I see the same ego , warped mentality, and power trips still, sine my large family is very catholic and very involved.  

And yet I still hear the discussion focused on if priests should be married or if Catholic priests get a bad rap or if it is homosexuality.  

Bottom line, if an adult in authority forces themselves on someone, that is a crime and is  wicked. And the Church continues to allow it and enable it.   They’re  not broken promises anymore, they are lies.  

[Guest]

21 hours ago, dominicansoul said:

“Lest we’re tempted to think that allowing priests to marry is a simple solution to the problem of clerical scandal—-Dr Scott Hahn

This is something way way WAY beyond "clerical scandal". It's to the point now something drastic has to be done ASAP. People need to lose their positions ect Or a ton of people who practice the faith are going to walk away and worship somewhere else. Or lose faith in God all together. Regardless if I identify as Catholic I will 99% always believe in a Higher Power and Love.

 I just went to Confession tonight. Went last week as well. The Priest who heard my confession tonight is great. I think he's one of the good ones. But if drastic changes aren't made I'm unsure if I can remain Catholic. I'm paying very close attention to what happens next. So far this Wuerl guy is still a Cardinal. This is not okay. He needs to be gone now.

26 minutes ago, Anomaly said:

The sexual abuse, the rape, and the cover up has been going on for many, many decades, even after it was uncovered and proven beyond a doubt.  And still the Catholic Church officials lie and cover up and enable the continuation of te this harm being inflicted on innocents.   I’ve seen it myself when I was a practicing Catholic.  I see the same ego , warped mentality, and power trips still, sine my large family is very catholic and very involved.  

And yet I still hear the discussion focused on if priests should be married or if Catholic priests get a bad rap or if it is homosexuality.  

Bottom line, if an adult in authority forces themselves on someone, that is a crime and is  wicked. And the Church continues to allow it and enable it.   They’re  not broken promises anymore, they are lies.  

Exactly. And at some point people have enough and walk away.

[Guest]

https://www.weeklystandard.com/the-editors/editorial-why-hasnt-pope-francis-removed-cardinal-donald-wuerl?_

[BG45]

But if drastic changes aren't made I'm unsure if I can remain Catholic.

To me, it's about the Eucharist.  If the Eucharist is true, and it is, then that's the reason to remain Catholic, despite the horrible things in this report.  I went to grad school in the Diocese of Greensburg, and one of the priests that was transferred in the 1960s was transferred to the parish I entered the faith in, in West Virginia.  (Actually the night of the report's release, I told my mother about that, and then the next morning it was the lead item in the local news.)  I wanted to be shocked, when I read through that section of the report, I genuinely did, but I wasn't.  Bishop Brandt who was the Bishop there when I was there, had his name redacted due to ongoing litigation.  

Then next door in the Diocese of Pittsburgh was all the stuff that Kateri mentioned.  So horrible.   An atheist friend and I were talking about the sex abuse report, and she seemed surprised at how angry and vicious I've been about it, towards those who helped cover things up, but I think when you love someone or something, like the Church, it's only natural to feel that betrayal all the more keenly.  Though as we spoke, an interesting thought came up between us.  Fundamentalists and Evangelicals tend to justify their abuses and cover ups, like those recently in the Southern Baptist Convention, by saying those people weren't real Christians to begin with, because if they were, they'd not do that, as the Bible says we become new creations in Christ, and that's a thing they take as a matter of the utmost faith.  With the Catholic Church, we've seen people hidden and shuffled, and covered for, and sent to therapy, and part of it might be a misguided attempt at forgiveness, part of it is definitely some covering for oneself and the reputation of the church, etc.  However, even as such horror comes to light, we don't hear we Catholics saying these people weren't real Catholics.  They had the sacraments, they participated in the public life of the Church, they were priests and Bishops, and they were Catholic...just really bad ones.  We don't disown them as not having had a relationship with Christ, despite the horrors they have committed.  

[Ash Wednesday]

I love my faith and I'm not going to leave just because of what these people have done. For all my griping about being sick of the wishy washy "progressive" slop that I was raised on and the diabolical filth we've seen for years and even at the hands of a priest in my own parish, the sacraments are still there. Some of the most spineless and corrupt times in the Church also yielded some of the greatest saints and reformers, and I will keep praying (maybe even fasting if I find the courage) until reform and rebirth comes to fruition. God always has the last word. 

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, Ash Wednesday said:

I love my faith and I'm not going to leave just because of what these people have done. For all my griping about being sick of the wishy washy "progressive" slop that I was raised on and the diabolical filth we've seen for years and even at the hands of a priest in my own parish, the sacraments are still there. Some of the most spineless and corrupt times in the Church also yielded some of the greatest saints and reformers, and I will keep praying (maybe even fasting if I find the courage) until reform and rebirth comes to fruition. God always has the last word. 

The more I think about I won't leave either. Confession and the Eucharist are something I need in my life. With that said if serious changes aren't made and a real effort to stop this dead in its tracks I will just keep my Catholic faith completely to myself. It's not like I'm that outspoken now about being Catholic but I will tell people that I practice the faith. Or share Catholic things on Facebook. But right now I'm really embarrassed to be Catholic. Not embarrassed of Jesus but the institution and what has been done top to bottom in protecting and covering for pedophiles and sexual abusers. 

[Ash Wednesday]

37 minutes ago, Josh said:

The more I think about I won't leave either. Confession and the Eucharist are something I need in my life. With that said if serious changes aren't made and a real effort to stop this dead in its tracks I will just keep my Catholic faith completely to myself. It's not like I'm that outspoken now about being Catholic but I will tell people that I practice the faith. Or share Catholic things on Facebook. But right now I'm really embarrassed to be Catholic. Not embarrassed of Jesus but the institution and what has been done top to bottom in protecting and covering for pedophiles and sexual abusers. 

Oh I hear you on that one. In the past people would have been more receptive whenever I bring up being Catholic. Right now that's a challenge. I have a good friend who has become more religious this year and open and positive about my Catholicism, but even so I'm treading lightly and trying to just let the Spirit work.

But it's true, to let the corrupt part us from the sacraments wouldn't be fair to us or anyone else that wants to do right and see justice done.