phatcatholic Posted July 27, 2004 Author Share Posted July 27, 2004 [quote name='mikeymc' date='Jul 27 2004, 04:09 PM'] I don't understand the purpose of the catorigization? When it comes down to it... Only God knows who the true Christians are. St. Augustine said that "There are those inside the Church who are actually outside the Church and there are those outside the Church who are actually within the Church." (not exact quote, from memory).. We all stand alone before God. [/quote] much could be said in response, especially regarding this sentence:[list] [*]I do not believe that Jesus is fretting over the official doctrines to which people claim to ascribe... [/list]but i wish not to engage in debate on this issue (note: debate in the apo board is forbidden). i have already made my decision about the reference section and see no need to change it, especially since, w/ my disclaimer, i have left open the door for either intrepretation. if you wish to discuss this topic further, i suggest starting a new thread in the debate board. pax christi, phatcatholic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catholicguy Posted July 28, 2004 Share Posted July 28, 2004 I think all heretics should be grouped together; however, since these claim to be jews, they should be receive under the label: deicide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catholicguy Posted July 28, 2004 Share Posted July 28, 2004 [quote]St. Augustine said that "There are those inside the Church who are actually outside the Church and there are those outside the Church who are actually within the Church." (not exact quote, from memory).. [/quote] Actually, St. Augustine said quite the opposite: "If you wish to be a Catholic, do not believe, nor say, nor teach, that infants who die before baptism can obtain the remission of original sin." Even stronger, he stated: "Whoever says that even infants are vivified in Christ when they depart this life without the participation of His Sacrament (Baptism), both opposes the Apostolic preaching and condemns the whole Church which hastens to baptize infants, because it unhesitatingly believes that otherwise they can not possibly be vivified in Christ." Even babies who are not Baptized, which certainly is not their personal fault, cannot be saved. How are we to treat those, then, who have reached the age of use and still claim to be Christians yet have not received from the living water the Sacrament without which there is no salvation? Certainly they are not Christians! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeymc Posted July 28, 2004 Share Posted July 28, 2004 (edited) I feel like I am part of a Phatmass inquisition or something.. I am trying to "discuss" this matter... A discussion can be an open dialogue... But.. it seems like my "wording" and personal nuances of expression are being critiqued like I was claiming to speak from the Chair of Peter... To the person who said that my St. Augustine quote was wrong.... how do claim to know that?... I think it would be good for us all to reflect on Jesus's life.... when the Pharasees and scribes were bickering over weather it was lawful for him to heal a man on the sabbath... Jesus healed the man and said... "The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath"... Also... "I desire mercy, not sacrifice"... I think it is a big Phat waste of time to bicker over "doctrinal nuances", lets leave that to the men who's job it is... like Cardinal Ratzinger and the Bishops..... My point over "Jesus Fretting" is that I do not believe that the measure of a Christian, is in how well he know's Catholic Doctrine... or claims to adhere to it... I believe the measure of a Christian is in The New Testament and outlined by the Church... Jesus Said that the two greatest commandments are "To love the Lord your God with all your Heart, Mind and Soul" and " To Love your neighbor as Yourself"..... So.... my contention comes from the parable of the Good Samaritan.... Who is our Neighbor... who was the Neighbor of the beaten man?..... it wasn't the men who were concerned over violating the letter of the law.... but the man who had compassion and mercy... The Samaritan took care of the other man as if he were his brother..... Love is the measure of a Christian Man... Jesus specifically warns against Presuming and Judging another... "Do not Judge lest you be judged" and "First Remove the plank in your eye before you try to remove the Spec from your brother's" As far as the Messianic Jews go... Are you really trying to Judge them?.... At the bottom of all my posts is a quote from Fulton Sheen... the actual breadth of it goes something like this.... "First off when you get to heaven you will be suprised that you made it... then... you will look around and be suprised that some people aren't there that you were sure would be there.... then... you will be further suprised.. That there are people there that you did not think would be there." (again...from memory... It was on the show "Life is worth living".. and probably in the book) This is not a debate... but a discussion. Does anyone disagree with me or with Fulton Sheen? Are my points off? Another one of my favorite quotes comes from a priest I admire.... "May your actions be so loud that people no longer listen to what you are saying." I believe... The measure of a Christian is not in what he says... but Who He Is and What He Does... I have been around the block a little bit as far as Theology goes and having "debates" with people..... I have studied "Orthodox" Theology in College... and that is all good stuff... don't get me wrong... but it also has little bearing on my Salvation... God does not Care how much Theology we know..., That's like saying...if you know alot of Biology you are Holier... Theology is a Science... "The Science of God".. I think He is concerned over how much Faith and Love we have...(Romans 13).... Or what we have done FOR our Neighbor lately... Edited July 28, 2004 by mikeymc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeymc Posted July 28, 2004 Share Posted July 28, 2004 (edited) Do not take personally my comments. I have no ill will.. I was asked at the beginning of this Post to "Please Explain Why" I somewhat did that, and was disagreed with, and directly quoted at that.... Thus opens up the "Discussion".... I like what you guys are doing with this site... and the Phorum...... We are all on the same team.. all Brothers... I used to have discussions like this with my buddies in College... and still do now... The difference between a discussion and a debate... is... in a Debate... you are only trying to prove you are Right... In a discussion.... We are both open to the truth... saying what we think... and listening to what the other has to say.... Not concerned with weather we are right or not, but with what the Truth is... what is at the Heart of the reality... Socratic Method... The Dialectic. Isn't our first concern to bring eachother to heaven?...not kiss eachother's behind. Peace. Edited July 28, 2004 by mikeymc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatcatholic Posted July 28, 2004 Author Share Posted July 28, 2004 start a thread in the debate board Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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