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Should someone with mental illness give up on being a nun?


28yrolddiscerner

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28yrolddiscerner

I keep getting rejected because I need meds, but I’m very stable emotionally.  I’m also polite and friendly!  

What can I do?

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I wouldn't give up!!

I know someone on here, who was in a similar situation, (who was in need of taking medication on a continual basis) and she found a community that was very accepting of her requiring meds and it turned out to be a win-win for her and her community! ;)

 

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3 hours ago, 28yrolddiscerner said:

I keep getting rejected because I need meds, but I’m very stable emotionally.  I’m also polite and friendly!  

What can I do?

Are you able to get a letter from your doctor or therapist attesting to your stability etc.   Statements too from priests and nuns or religious you know well, your parish priest would be a good one too.

Re the meds, it probably would depend on the cost of the medications and how long you have been stable on them.

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There is no one answer to this. I remember that there was a community of Sisters with whom I had close contact, at a time when I was not seeking to enter their community. (I had been forced out of the community with whom I had lived, and I was shattered.) This other community, with whom I was quite friendly, had a vocation director inform me that, if I cared to make application, I could do so right away.

I am not psychotic, but I'd had major depression and anorexia (some years earlier). After my rejection from my community, the pain, and being unable to share this (people think those who are rejected are relieved, or just spout cliches), undoubtedly made things worse. I did not want to seek treatment, because some communities I knew (I worked for an archdiocese) were wary of any 'reject', and I did not want any appearance of that my rejection was connected to a mental illness. In 1986, I was falling apart - I sought therapy and medications, and this did improve my functioning a great deal.

Later, I approached the same community which originally thought well of me -but I now was on meds and had psychotherapy. I wrote to the superior (with whom I was acquainted in the past), and was very open about this. She had me come to visit, and spent three hours asking me  all sorts of questions (such as whether I'd left the Church at any time; been involved with cults - actually puzzling.) At the end of this, she told me that they don't even consider anyone in psychotherapy, or who is on related medication, because 'someone mature enough to enter religious life would know this is not a perfect world.' That is an ignorant statement, of course, but I wish she'd just told me they don't take people in therapy in the first place, rather than having me travel a distance, then have questions all day.

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I know a young woman was told "no" by two communities because of medication and "yes" by two communities despite medication.  :)

19 hours ago, BarbaraTherese said:

Are you able to get a letter from your doctor or therapist attesting to your stability etc.   Statements too from priests and nuns or religious you know well, your parish priest would be a good one too.

I agree with this! ^^

 

 

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Very sorry indeed to read of your experience, Gloriana.  If I read ok, your experience goes back some 30 years.   I think that understanding of mental illness is more enlightened nowadays including in religious orders and communities............but not always.  I think it is of great importance if one does suffer a mental illness to learn to deal with false stigma and keep on walking, to not be dragged near to, or into, the pit of despair/depression because of it - and that is no easy feat for absolutely sure.  It is an added heavy burden to the already terrible burden of MI.

You really feel that you have been stripped of everything when you loose your own mind.

When I left religious life (monastic) of my own choice back in my early forties, initially I was quite shattered as I had invested probably all of myself into the belief I had a religious monastic vocation.  I journeyed with that and in the journeying I somehow ("all is Grace" Therese Lisieux) changed my attitude and perspective and came to understand that God's vision for me was not in religious life..........it was my vision for myself.  That journey was no easy matter and asked that I stay with the pain of having again left religious life (I had entered twice) and the feeling that God did not want me..........yet trusting Him.  I think it was during that journey I read "Abandonment to Divine Providence" and also came across the section on Divine Providence in the CCC.  That was Providential indeed!   What I had to do in my own journey was disentangle myself from what I wanted and begin to try to discern what God was asking........and that is no easy matter either.

Life is all attitude and perspective and in understanding what The Church teaches, I can begin to adjust my own perspectives and attitudes in tune with The Lord.

To @28yrolddiscerner however, I would whole heartedly encourage you to keep exploring as long as you feel you might have a religious vocation.

_______________

Abandonment to Divine Providence - CCEL online - https://www.ccel.org/ccel/decaussade/abandonment.html

Catholic Catechism - Divine Providence - scroll down to GOD CARRIES OUT HIS PLAN: DIVINE PROVIDENCE http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p1s2c1p4.htm

Edited by BarbaraTherese
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12 hours ago, gloriana35 said:

Later, I approached the same community which originally thought well of me -but I now was on meds and had psychotherapy. I wrote to the superior (with whom I was acquainted in the past), and was very open about this. She had me come to visit, and spent three hours asking me  all sorts of questions (such as whether I'd left the Church at any time; been involved with cults - actually puzzling.) At the end of this, she told me that they don't even consider anyone in psychotherapy, or who is on related medication, because 'someone mature enough to enter religious life would know this is not a perfect world.' That is an ignorant statement, of course, but I wish she'd just told me they don't take people in therapy in the first place, rather than having me travel a distance, then have questions all day.

I do think that it would be remiss (to put it mildly) of a community's leadership to know they would not even consider "anyone in psychotherapy, or who is on related medication" and then to ask you to come and visit.  You should have been told outright from the first communication.  I also tend to think personally that those that really do have a religious vocation may not be quite mature spiritually - it takes place in the formation.  In fact maturing spiritually is a life long quest and journey ........ to my mind.  From what I have read, in fact formation is ongoing throughout religious life.

You seem to have come across some very nasty experiences in my book.  Was it indeed experiences from some 30 years ago, or is it more recent?  I am really hoping that you are relating a story from your past that you have now come to terms with and moved on in your journey.  There is an organization that is apparently very effective for those who have left religious life and are suffering in some way - "Leonie's Longing" http://leonieslonging.org/

The world is not perfect and neither is religious life as it is lived out in the day to day - it is a struggle often, while it is the state of perfection.  That state in life where perfection is the objective and probably most readily attained.  Everything in the life will be ideally geared towards perfection.  That does not mean that those outside of religious life cannot attain perfection/journey towards perfection.

I am really hoping that @28yrolddiscerner will not be discouraged.  All good comes from God and to desire religious life is certainly a great good.  Hence, do pursue religious life as long as you feel that it is the life to which you are called.  There are plenty of stories of those who have entered religious life and have embraced it joyfully and never looked back............and stories to the contrary.  

I am hoping you have a spiritual director. 

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20 hours ago, BarbaraTherese said:

Are you able to get a letter from your doctor or therapist attesting to your stability etc.   Statements too from priests and nuns or religious you know well, your parish priest would be a good one too.

Re the meds, it probably would depend on the cost of the medications and how long you have been stable on them.

@28yrolddiscerner I do think that the above, or some of the above, would be very helpful in approaching religious communities.  You need to explain to your referers that what you need (beside a general referral type statement) would include a statement of your stability despite mental illness and for how long you have been stable continually. They need to state too how long they have known you.

Go to whoever prescribes your medication and ask for a statement including of how long you have been stable on that medication.  You would also need the monthly cost involved.

If you decide to follow the above, remember to take copies for your own files.

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On 8/4/2018 at 11:51 AM, 28yrolddiscerner said:

I keep getting rejected because I need meds, but I’m very stable emotionally.  I’m also polite and friendly!  

What can I do?

Have you looked into Secular Institutes of Consecrated Life?  This would allow you to live in your own home.  What follows is a link to a fairly detailed explanation http://www.carmelite.org/family/lay-carmel/leaven-secular-institute - but there are quite a few Secular Institutes and each would probably have their own particular rules and regulations - constitution, means of formation.

"Secular institutes are recognized either by a Bishop (diocesan right) or by the Holy See. Most are registered in the World Conference of Secular Institutes." 

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28yrolddiscerner
On 8/4/2018 at 12:11 AM, nikita92 said:

I wouldn't give up!!

I know someone on here, who was in a similar situation, (who was in need of taking medication on a continual basis) and she found a community that was very accepting of her requiring meds and it turned out to be a win-win for her and her community! ;)

 

That’s great! Which community did she join??? Ty

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15 hours ago, 28yrolddiscerner said:

That’s great! Which community did she join??? Ty

It's very difficult to give advice without knowing more about your journey so far, but based on your posting history, and the question you're asking here, I can see why communities might be having concerns. In an extremely short space of time, you went from asking questions on Vocation Station about cloistered life, to asking about the Salesians, to asking about the DSMME. Rightly or wrongly, this gives the impression that you're just looking for any community that will take you, without really caring about who they are or what they do. Sisters will discourage women who seem to be looking for anywhere that will have them, even if the women take no medication at all and have always had perfect health.

On the other hand, if you feel genuinely drawn to a community's spirituality, their charism, and their mission, the sisters are likely to be more willing to discuss health problems and see if there is a way for the community to accommodate them. This was the case with me: at first my community thought that my disability would be incompatible with their way of life, but as they saw that their spirituality resonated with me, they wanted to stay in touch. When they knew me and my problems better, they realised that it might be possible for them to adapt to my needs in community, and they let me know that the provincial council was willing for me to apply if I still wanted to try my vocation with them. But if I had gone to a bunch of other communities in the meantime, with absolutely no criterion other than, "Do you accept women with XYZ disability?", I doubt they would have made the offer - their invitation, like my discernment, was based on my affinity for their spirituality and way of life, and nothing else.

Based on what you've shared so far, I think the best thing for you would be to find a spiritual director if you don't have one already, or to join a discernment programme. Make that your priority now. They will be able to help you identify what you are really searching for in a community on the deepest level, which means that you will hopefully be able to have more fruitful conversations with sisters when you do eventually approach them.

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On 8/5/2018 at 2:08 AM, BarbaraTherese said:

 

..The world is not perfect and neither is religious life as it is lived out in the day to day - it is a struggle often, while it is the state of perfection.  That state in life where perfection is the objective and probably most readily attained.  Everything in the life will be ideally geared towards perfection.  That does not mean that those outside of religious life cannot attain perfection/journey towards perfection....I am hoping you have a spiritual director. <<<

At my age (I am a senior) I am perfectly well aware that the world and religious life are not perfect! Nor do I have the slightest desire to live in community again. (As I mentioned in my original post, this community was one I approached when I tried to make another attempt at religious life - I already had lived in community.

I am an Anglican solitary today, but I assure you I am not in mourning over what happened forty years ago. I did not recount this particular experience to discourage anyone. I was pointing out the ignorance that can exist amongst some religious superiors. In case anyone encountered anything similar, she should not blame herself, nor think this is anything new.

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28yrolddiscerner
On 8/4/2018 at 10:25 PM, BarbaraTherese said:

@28yrolddiscerner I do think that the above, or some of the above, would be very helpful in approaching religious communities.  You need to explain to your referers that what you need (beside a general referral type statement) would include a statement of your stability despite mental illness and for how long you have been stable continually. They need to state too how long they have known you.

Go to whoever prescribes your medication and ask for a statement including of how long you have been stable on that medication.  You would also need the monthly cost involved.

If you decide to follow the above, remember to take copies for your own files.

Great advice thank you!

On 8/5/2018 at 4:25 PM, beatitude said:

It's very difficult to give advice without knowing more about your journey so far, but based on your posting history, and the question you're asking here, I can see why communities might be having concerns. In an extremely short space of time, you went from asking questions on Vocation Station about cloistered life, to asking about the Salesians, to asking about the DSMME. Rightly or wrongly, this gives the impression that you're just looking for any community that will take you, without really caring about who they are or what they do. Sisters will discourage women who seem to be looking for anywhere that will have them, even if the women take no medication at all and have always had perfect health.

On the other hand, if you feel genuinely drawn to a community's spirituality, their charism, and their mission, the sisters are likely to be more willing to discuss health problems and see if there is a way for the community to accommodate them. This was the case with me: at first my community thought that my disability would be incompatible with their way of life, but as they saw that their spirituality resonated with me, they wanted to stay in touch. When they knew me and my problems better, they realised that it might be possible for them to adapt to my needs in community, and they let me know that the provincial council was willing for me to apply if I still wanted to try my vocation with them. But if I had gone to a bunch of other communities in the meantime, with absolutely no criterion other than, "Do you accept women with XYZ disability?", I doubt they would have made the offer - their invitation, like my discernment, was based on my affinity for their spirituality and way of life, and nothing else.

Based on what you've shared so far, I think the best thing for you would be to find a spiritual director if you don't have one already, or to join a discernment programme. Make that your priority now. They will be able to help you identify what you are really searching for in a community on the deepest level, which means that you will hopefully be able to have more fruitful conversations with sisters when you do eventually approach them.

I have been looking at very different ways of life in religious communities... that doesn’t mean I want whoever will take me! I’m open to different possibilities. And you are not my judge.

ill find an Sd.

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An SD can help you navigate these questions and help you plan out how to approach this. What the above poster is trying to say is that what you have posted here is sort of all over the place and without structure, which your discernment should have. Someone with unstructured discernment is not going to be a good candidate for any community if any sort, and the sorts of questions you are posing are ones an SD should help you with. No, no one person here is a judge for you, as discernment is a process that should happen faceto face with an SD and communities you discern with your SD that you should contact, but there are a lot of people here connected to communities you may be looking at, who have done the discernment process, and who have answered questions for you before, and have given you the same/similar advice before: slow down and find an SD. If you are being rejected, perhaps consider it a sign that your interactions with these communities are similar to your interactions here: kind of scattered and unfocused, and without spiritual direction. Slow down, there is no rush. If you are stable as you say you are, take the advice you have been given and follow through, as that is what builds and supports continual stability.

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I can somehow understand you, 28yrolddiscerner, with your seemingly unstructured search. I made the experience of rejection myself, and when I found out that most communities of my preferred spiritual tradition and style have great difficulties to accept me (age limits) I thought "ok, maybe God is telling me something here, maybe he wants me to join a different sort of community". Cloistered communities are more open to older applicants, so I went for one of these, and got indeed accepted - only to leave some time later, because I just didn't fit in with them. (It still was an important experience for me and I'm very thankful to that community.)

One advantage you have is your age - you still have years in which you can get to know different communities and find out which style suits you. And also, time is working for you regarding your illness, as you will be able to prove that you have been stable over an ever longer period and that you are able to work/study/live independently over a longer time.

Maybe you could get to know communities just as a generally interested woman, not mentioning your mental health, and give some sisters the opportunity to get to know you first. When you find that a certain community really interests you and they have already got a positive impression of you, then you could inform the vocation director about your interest and your mental health issue and see how she reacts. Of course, this approach means a high "emotional investment" from you - it's much harder to take a rejection from a community you've started to love, than to ask early, when you don't have an emotional connection with them. But as others have said - your risk of rejection may be higher then....

 

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