Luigi Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 7 minutes ago, Seven77 said: Building a wall necessitates effacing a national monument, specifically the base of the Statue of Liberty. Also, building a wall means confiscating private property. So much for freedom. The poem at the bottom of the Statue of Liberty is just that - a poem. It's not part of the Constitution. We can still accept huddled masses, as long as they huddle legally. And that's something the federal government needs to address - they need to get much more light on their feet about identifying how many people they will accept, from what countries, for what reasons. Private property is never just confiscated. The government has to declare Eminent Domain and reimburse the owners with fair market value. That's how the national highway system was built. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seven77 Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 31 minutes ago, Luigi said: The poem at the bottom of the Statue of Liberty is just that - a poem. It's not part of the Constitution. We can still accept huddled masses, as long as they huddle legally. And that's something the federal government needs to address - they need to get much more light on their feet about identifying how many people they will accept, from what countries, for what reasons. Private property is never just confiscated. The government has to declare Eminent Domain and reimburse the owners with fair market value. That's how the national highway system was built. 1 The problem is that many can't come through the normal legal process because it's backlogged and broken. Like you said, the government needs to address this. We can't assume that undocumented people want to actually "break the law"… Also as far as private property never being confiscated, tell that to the Native Americans. And slaves were never reimbursed with fair market value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenScapularedHuman Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 1 hour ago, Luigi said: Private property is never just confiscated. The government has to declare Eminent Domain and reimburse the owners with fair market value. That's how the national highway system was built. When Congress authorized and directed a pilot program, which started under President Bush and was completed under Obama, though notably neither President had any significant influence over the program, that was to test the feasibility of constructing a wall. One of the things the government did to save time and money was to take the land first, meaning people were evicted without any compensation, and then told them the compensation would be negotiated later. Those who had enough money to get lawyers got many times more than those who couldn't. The national highway system served a purpose, pays for itself in tax to the stimulated economy and trade, in many places was little more than a slightly improved road (a slab of concrete on the ground), and really didn't require so very much space be taken. A wall requires more space because its not just a wall.. its the space you need around it to secure it and to keep maintenance on it. More importantly... Congress paid the bill for the national highway system and didn't cut corners. Building a wall will be expensive and won't pay for itself like the highways will. So... Congress doesn't want to pay... moreover because the CBO and other estimations are that it won't do anything other than cost money. Trump also gets that Americans dont want to pay for it... Thats why "WHOS GOING TO PAY FOR IT!?" "MEXICO!" "Thats right you the American tax payer." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little2add Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomaly Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 20 hours ago, Seven77 said: Building a wall necessitates effacing a national monument, specifically the base of the Statue of Liberty. Also, building a wall means confiscating private property. So much for freedom. What about some actions to aid freedoms in other countries. The US is not perfect, but better by such a huge margin that people leave their homes, families, neighbors, cultures, and risk their very lives and lives of their children to live in the flawed US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenScapularedHuman Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little2add Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 Not only have more unaccompanied children illegally crossed the southern border this year — more than twice last year's total — but they are crossing at much younger ages, according to a study released this week. There has been a 117% increase in apprehensions among unaccompanied children ages 12 and younger and a 12% increase among teenagers between fiscal year 2013 and the first eight months of fiscal year 2014, according to government statistics obtained through a Freedom of Information Act request by the Pew Research Center. Also, the number of unaccompanied girls that have been caught crossing the border illegally has increased more rapidly this year than the number of boys, Pew research found. its not Trumps fault, its the parents 70,000 Kids Will Show Up Alone at Our Border This Year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenScapularedHuman Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little2add Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 If you don’t approve of jailing illegal trespassers change the law! Trump,s sworn duty is to enforce the laws of the land. Customs (ICE) Immigration and Customs Enforcement are only doing there job. im all for taking in immigrants I’m all for changing the laws to make it easier . the current way the border is protected is stupid and out-of-control. a wall may or may not stop the flow of Dangerious drugs. Opioids smuggling is a grave and dangerous treat to our nation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenScapularedHuman Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 https://www.npr.org/2018/07/02/625504723/federal-judge-orders-administration-to-end-arbitrary-detention-of-asylum-seekers Federal Judge Orders Administration To End Arbitrary Detention Of Asylum-Seekers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little2add Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 8 hours ago, little2add said: 70,000 Kids Will Show Up Alone at Our Border This Year. without food, water or shelter,.. wouldn't it be prudent to provide foster care? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenScapularedHuman Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 That 70,000 number is very inaccurate... But its https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/usbp-sw-border-apprehensions-fy2017 likely will be closer to 40-50 thousand... But it ignores that the overwhelming majority of these unaccompanied minors do have parents, family, or distant family who is able and willing to take them in. If that is not possible temporary foster homes. If that is not possible temporary group housing. If that is not possible facilities that you have likely seen on TV which is the norm of the Trump administration so far. If that is not possible ICE detention facilities. This has been the long standing policy on unaccompanied minors. Trump has decided to just throw them all into the most maximum detention possible... and due to the fact that there isn't enough facility they are now overcrowded and in some cases pretty close to being tent cities. Very likely why the Trump administration has forbidden journalists, UN and even RedCross inspectors in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fides' Jack Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 20 hours ago, little2add said: Opioids smuggling is a grave and dangerous treat to our nation Hahahaha! Never have I encountered a better example of why proper spelling is important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little2add Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 8 hours ago, GreenScapularedHuman said: Trump administration has forbidden journalists, UN and even RedCross inspectors in. Source? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenScapularedHuman Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 Some select representatives and journalists have been allowed very limited access to ICE sites holding minors, moreover young children, but that very limited access means that they can't see the whole facility... that they can't interview children or staff... that they can't take photos... http://www.businessinsider.com/border-patrol-facility-children-detained-2018-6 Its also very select ICE facilities that have been allowed for these very limited tours... It is very likely why Trump has Melania visiting the facilities, the premier best of he best of the facilities, to avoid images like this to get out: Which was taken by a reporter using a telescopic camera showing detainees in a tent city standing out in the summer's heat unshaded. We know that ICE has set up tent ciites even for children and even infants since ICE facility space has ran out under Trump's new policy. So it is pretty fair to assume that very similar facilities as seen in this photo is where some children and infants are finding themselves... Its not hard to imagine why the Trump administration wants that kept out of the public eye... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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