Slaves of the Immaculate Heart of Mary

[Antigonos]

2 hours ago, Bonkira said:

I live close to these sisters and have visited for Mass etc. They seem like lovely people, but their order and their brother order (and surrounding community) are not very diverse and, as a person of color, their name is off-putting as is their general lack of insight as to why it may be off-putting.

I tend to agree with you, but not for the same reasons.  To me, any order using the term "slaves" or "victims" in its name makes me uneasy; it seems unhealthy, somehow, masochistic.  However, one man's floor is another man's ceiling....

[DameAgnes]

8 hours ago, Lou said:

I absolutely agree that is great if communities invite you to enter because you show an inclination towards their apostolate and a joy for religious life.

 

Honestly, I don't think there is anything wrong with a community saying, "Well, you feel called, and we can't possibly KNOW so if you're healthy and inclined, give it a shot." St. Benedict's Rule says if someone asks to join, let them. Postulancy is very much meant to be a time of discernment. He even said let them try at least twice. 

Fifty years ago discernment wasn't as arduous and painstaking as it seems to be, now. Young women would feel an attraction to a community (usually one she had contact with through school or parish) and would just join up. That's how a lot of small "local" and diocesan sorts of communities flourished. It was as much about propinquity as anything else. If they were healthy and able, they would simply be permitted to enter. Either they persevered or they did not, but I've always thought if one feels called to try a vocation, it shouldn't be hard to do that.

Of course, back then, it was "scandalous" if one realized that one wasn't called, and so I think perhaps some women remained who really were not happy. I remember when I was a little girl (back in the pre-Vatican II old-fashioned habits) a young woman from our parish entered the Sisters of Mercy and when she returned home before even starting her novitiate there was a lot of uncharitable whispering, which was just terrible and unfair. Thankfully that is not so true, anymore, although I have been told that here and there young women still encounter that. 

2 hours ago, Bonkira said:

I live close to these sisters and have visited for Mass etc. They seem like lovely people, but their order and their brother order (and surrounding community) are not very diverse and, as a person of color, their name is off-putting as is their general lack of insight as to why it may be off-putting.

That's interesting. I do know they once had a Latina novice, and they seem to have a sizeable Asian presence in their community. To give their "lack of insight" the best possible assumption, perhaps they simply are so convinced that a life given to Jesus and Mary means total surrender, but I can see where it would make people uncomfortable.

[JHFamily]

DameAgnes, I may have to agree with you on that.  I can't say I have any regrets at my time with the order, and I am a better person because of it.  And discernment these days does seem like it can border on the absurd side.  I know young women who agonize over finding the "right" community and never end up entering any of them because they're not "perfect".  But, it is really nice when a vocation director takes some time to get to know the person, and if she sees signs of fitting into another community better, to direct her that way.  There is a community located close to me, and I know they have suggested to some young men to visit "x" or "y" community before making any decisions.  And many of them are still persevering at "x" or "y", though a few do come back and enter here.

[deusluxmea]

1 hour ago, DameAgnes said:

Honestly, I don't think there is anything wrong with a community saying, "Well, you feel called, and we can't possibly KNOW so if you're healthy and inclined, give it a shot." St. Benedict's Rule says if someone asks to join, let them. Postulancy is very much meant to be a time of discernment. He even said let them try at least twice. 
 

I thought the Rule of Benedict advised AGAINST easy entry to religious life:

Chapter 58
"Do not grant newcomers to the monastic life an easy entry.... if someone comes and keeps knocking at the door, and if at the end of four or five days he has shown himself patient in bearing his harsh treatment and difficulty of entry, and has persisted in his request, then he should be allowed to enter and stay in the guest quarters for a few days."

 

This is from a translation I found online...https://christdesert.org/prayer/rule-of-st-benedict/chapter-58-the-procedure-for-receiving-brothers/

[Bonkira]

3 hours ago, DameAgnes said:

Honestly, I don't think there is anything wrong with a community saying, "Well, you feel called, and we can't possibly KNOW so if you're healthy and inclined, give it a shot." St. Benedict's Rule says if someone asks to join, let them. Postulancy is very much meant to be a time of discernment. He even said let them try at least twice. 

Fifty years ago discernment wasn't as arduous and painstaking as it seems to be, now. Young women would feel an attraction to a community (usually one she had contact with through school or parish) and would just join up. That's how a lot of small "local" and diocesan sorts of communities flourished. It was as much about propinquity as anything else. If they were healthy and able, they would simply be permitted to enter. Either they persevered or they did not, but I've always thought if one feels called to try a vocation, it shouldn't be hard to do that.

Of course, back then, it was "scandalous" if one realized that one wasn't called, and so I think perhaps some women remained who really were not happy. I remember when I was a little girl (back in the pre-Vatican II old-fashioned habits) a young woman from our parish entered the Sisters of Mercy and when she returned home before even starting her novitiate there was a lot of uncharitable whispering, which was just terrible and unfair. Thankfully that is not so true, anymore, although I have been told that here and there young women still encounter that. 

That's interesting. I do know they once had a Latina novice, and they seem to have a sizeable Asian presence in their community. To give their "lack of insight" the best possible assumption, perhaps they simply are so convinced that a life given to Jesus and Mary means total surrender, but I can see where it would make people uncomfortable.

I don't think their motives are unpleasant, just the name and it's connotations. Even biblically, slavery is a less than positive ideal and was not a position one consented to so total surrender seems at odds. There seem to better words and it would seem that being compelled against one's will and desire would very much against what the great master and Christ would have in mind for thoseto be married to him and the church.

[beatitude]

56 minutes ago, Bonkira said:

I don't think their motives are unpleasant, just the name and it's connotations. Even biblically, slavery is a less than positive ideal and was not a position one consented to so total surrender seems at odds. There seem to better words and it would seem that being compelled against one's will and desire would very much against what the great master and Christ would have in mind for thoseto be married to him and the church.

I agree. There is a difference between self-surrender to God and slavery. "I do not call you servants, because a servant does not know his master's business; but I have called you friends, because I have made known to you everything I have heard from my Father..." That name would deter me as well, but as Antigonos says, different strokes for different folks.

[Lou]

On 5/21/2018 at 8:08 PM, FindingTheWay said:

I'm wondering if I really have a vocation or it's just a "crush" on accidentally finding an order that I could join

I fear we have skated the thread and although it has led to great conversation regarding a) discernment encouragement; b) the ongoing responsibility of discerning during postulancy despite having taken a progressive step; c) the differences between accompaniment and encouragement, and d) the names "Slaves" and it's place, I wonder if poor FindingTheWay has indeed found the way?! Any updates, any further yearnings?! Anyone else on the forum discerning with the Slaves of the IHM who could tell us more about their accompaniment or indeed, the origin of the name of their order! Of course I'm not trying to shut down other conversations, I'm just aware that perhaps we haven't managed to answer the question at hand! And if we don't soon, we may forget what the question was in the first place! 

Or are there any other orders people have contacted who have a similar apostolate and the Latin mass?! 

[DameAgnes]

4 hours ago, deusluxmea said:

I thought the Rule of Benedict advised AGAINST easy entry to religious life:

Chapter 58
"Do not grant newcomers to the monastic life an easy entry.... if someone comes and keeps knocking at the door, and if at the end of four or five days he has shown himself patient in bearing his harsh treatment and difficulty of entry, and has persisted in his request, then he should be allowed to enter and stay in the guest quarters for a few days."

 

This is from a translation I found online...https://christdesert.org/prayer/rule-of-st-benedict/chapter-58-the-procedure-for-receiving-brothers/

That's funny, I've always thought "the end of 4-5 days" seemed pretty easy. :-)

2 hours ago, Bonkira said:

 There seem to better words and it would seem that being compelled against one's will and desire would very much against what the great master and Christ would have in mind for those to be married to him and the church.

But they're not compelled against their will. I suppose that's the point. They are WILLING slaves of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, who is not an owner but a mother. I guess we have to get mystical on this point. :-)

[FindingTheWay]

Everyone's been super helpful! I'm a very private person by nature, so y'all won't be hearing from .me much regardless of whether or not I go forward with the Slaves of the Immaculate Heart of Mary. Really just wanted to know others experiences and they seem "normal"   Thanks for all the replies & good discussion points!

[Lou]

Good to hear, blessings on your road! Good stuff.