Cloister? Not cloistered?

[28yrolddiscerner]

I want to give everything I have to Jesus and pray for the world.  I feel drawn to cloistered life... but how to know if I should visit a cloistered community or not?  I visited one but they focused on work much more than prayer.  Do you know any cloistered nun community that is very prayer focused (I don’t mind working, but I do need at least an hour of my own time to read or reflect daily ).  I’m looking for a community that has a balance of work, prayer, and recreation.

also, are there any special prayers to pray for those already enclosed?

thank you

[John Paul]

The Carmelite nuns have a horarium that looks like what you are looking for. They have vocal and silent prayer, work, and recreation. They also have  an hour and a half or so of Free Time after the office...Compline I'm guessing.

All Carmelite nuns live a life/horarium similar to this . 

The bottom of the page has the horarium.

This website has a list of carmelite communities with their websites.

 

Edited April 10, 2018 by John Paul

[JHFamily]

I completely agree that some communities get too caught up in their work.  I've even visited some that work  completely took the place of their recreation time.  (I don't mean that they brought handwork to recreation, but that there was no recreation because everyone was in different parts of the monastery doing odd jobs.)  The PCC's (Poor Clare Colettines), with whom I'm very familiar, also have a good balance.  Most of them have some kind of internet presence.  They tend to work together in silence, though, in contrast to the Carmelites who tend to work in solitude.  In fact, I think many cloistered communities of many orders do have a good balance.  

 Just want to note that John Paul's list of Carmels is not complete.  It leaves out many of the JMJ Carmels which are growing exponentially and have all liturgies in Latin.  It also leaves out a good group I know in Alexandria, South Dakota.  Here is a list that contains both of them, but not all U.S. Carmels.   http://discalcedcarmelites1990.blogspot.com/  The 1990 Carmels (which means they follow the 1990 Constitutions) tend to be more "strict" than other Carmels, but not always so.  I immediately think of the Denmark, Wisconsin, Carmel that seems more "strict" than the 1990's I know.  Many Carmels (including 1990's) have an hour after their midday recreation for siesta or quiet, free time in the cell, though the Carmelite horarium that John Paul linked you to does not have that.  

[NadaTeTurbe]

2 hours ago, JHFamily said:

I completely agree that some communities get too caught up in their work.  I've even visited some that work  completely took the place of their recreation time.  (I don't mean that they brought handwork to recreation, but that there was no recreation because everyone was in different parts of the monastery doing odd jobs.) 

You know, it may be part of their spirituality. Traditionally, the cistercian doesn't have recreation...

[JHFamily]

1 hour ago, NadaTeTurbe said:

You know, it may be part of their spirituality. Traditionally, the cistercian doesn't have recreation...

That is a good point, however, I am speaking of my experience with communities that do have recreation in the rule, yet it gets pushed aside.  I've seen this particularly in active orders where the apostolate overtakes the community, but I have also experienced it to a lesser degree in contemplative orders.

[NunMother]

A Day in the Life

 

[OnlySunshine]

A cloister I'd recommend is the Dominican Nuns in Summit, NJ.  Sr. Mary Catherine used to post here and they seem very balanced and joyful.

https://www.summitdominicans.org/

I also liked the Carmelites in Terre Haute, IN when I was discerning.  They seem pretty balanced.

http://heartsawake.org/index.php

 

[deusluxmea]

Also check out the Benedictines, who may have the "balance" you seek. They are contemplative too.

[Nunsuch]

Just now, deusluxmea said:

Also check out the Benedictines, who may have the "balance" you seek. They are contemplative too.

Not all Benedictines are contemplatives. "Monastic" is not the same thing. In the US, most Benedictines have active ministries. Only a very few communities are primarily contemplative.

[deusluxmea]

Good point, nunsuch. After I posted this, I remembered the Benedictine good sams in Australia who are primarily apostolic. Mea culpa!

[Nunsuch]

I think there is a tendency to confuse contemplative an monastic. I've seen it in a lot of work by scholars, which is particularly frustrating!

[NadaTeTurbe]

7 hours ago, Nunsuch said:

I think there is a tendency to confuse contemplative an monastic. I've seen it in a lot of work by scholars, which is particularly frustrating!

Historically, when do we start to see the use of the "contemplative/active" notions in the Church ?

[Sister Leticia]

People also assume only cloistered religious are "contemplative". I belong to an apostolic congregation which is fully apostolic and fully contemplative. One flows from and leads to the other, rather like the double movement of breathing in and breathing out.

I would also add that I have a Cistercian friend who is deeply contemplative and prayerful, spends a lot of time in personal prayer, reading and reflection as well as prayer with the community... and is incredibly busy. This is the reality for those in smaller monasteries (fewer than 20), as people often have more than one responsibility, and everyone has to pitch in/take turns with various jobs.

In the sort of huge monastery featured in "In this House of Brede", for example, single responsibilities are the norm - eg cellarer, choir mistress, infirmarian, sacristan, plus several cooks, gardeners etc. This doesn't mean they are less busy, of course - a huge monastery = several invalids, full-time kitchen duties and so on - but it does mean they're not pulled in various directions. 

So there is always a tension between a compelling call to prayer and the need to fulfil responsibilities and keep the monastery going, the sick cared for, bills paid, everyone nourished and so on. A cloistered nun might well want to go for a long contemplative walk or spend time in the chapel, but first she has to do the laundry or spend 2 hours making communion wafers. It's a tension also felt by apostolic religious - after all, our relationship with God, nourished by prayer, is what brought us into religious life! But you learn to be with God, wherever you are, to cultivate some sort of interior silence, and to make the most of opportunities, however brief, for prayer. 

[Nunsuch]

32 minutes ago, NadaTeTurbe said:

Historically, when do we start to see the use of the "contemplative/active" notions in the Church ?

Good question! I think that what Sister Letitia says is true--that many communities with active apostolates are also truly contemplative. Consider much of the writing of Sister Nancy Sylvester on contemplation and engaging impasse.... Really wonderful! In the US, the meetings of LCWR have engaged intentionally in contemplative practice since at least 2010. I'm not sure about the meetings of CMSWR, but they might, as well. 

I think in a technical sense "active" communities were not fully recognized till 1900, with Pope Leo XIII's "Conditae a Christo." The Normae that implemented that (1901) would be incorporated into the 1917 Code of Canon Law. This legitimated simple as opposed to solemn vows and relegated the later either to historical monastics or to those observing strict enclosure. 

There is always a big difference between popular/colloquial usage and technical accuracy, too.... It's a complicated matter, isn't it?

[Egeria]

11 hours ago, NadaTeTurbe said:

Historically, when do we start to see the use of the "contemplative/active" notions in the Church ?

If I remember correctly (I can't find sources now), it was Thomas Aquinas who first formulated (or at least clarified) such a distinction. In any case, there was a definite shift in the understanding of active and contemplative from that found in the patristic period to that found in the second millenium West. Father Gabriel Bunge discusses this in his book Earthen Vessels, where he points out that, for the Fathers, both of these exist in one person, even sometimes at the same time, and are two stages or aspects of the same path. The active (praktike) refers to the external aspects of prayer and the struggle with the passions, while the contemplative (theoria) refers to its natural horizon and goal.

Given that the western monastic tradition has its roots in the patristic period, it is hardly surprising that contemporary western understandings of active and contemplative don't fit well with it!

On 10/04/2018 at 11:36 PM, 28yrolddiscerner said:

I want to give everything I have to Jesus and pray for the world.  I feel drawn to cloistered life... but how to know if I should visit a cloistered community or not?  I visited one but they focused on work much more than prayer.  Do you know any cloistered nun community that is very prayer focused (I don’t mind working, but I do need at least an hour of my own time to read or reflect daily ).  I’m looking for a community that has a balance of work, prayer, and recreation.

also, are there any special prayers to pray for those already enclosed?

thank you

While there are communities and individual monastics that can be too focused on work (either out of genuine necessity or as an escape from dealing with other things), it's also important to note this can also just be a first impression. Monasteries are busy places (however "peaceful" they may seem to those beyond the enclosure walls), and it is not uncommon for newcomers to feel overwhelmed and constantly exhausted. However, we do adapt, and part of the whole process of monastic formation (and why it requires time) is adapting to a different rhythm in which we find peace and space within what initially seemed an incredibly busy rhythm. That does happen, but it is not simple and requires time.