Reception of the host

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

Bearing in mind according to holy scripture Jesus passed his body and blood to his followers and there is no mention of receiving on the tounge.

I think it is a personal matter and no priest should deny either way to receive the host, except in the Latin rite.

St Paul says pretty much to not grieve each other on small matters as one may eat pork and the other may not be able to, but not to tempt your brother if he can not for the sake that we all may have a clear conscience.

Some seem to me unable to fit through the gates of heaven with so many rules they they sure as hell try to stop anyone else getting in there, this utterly infuriates me. Not that there hasn't been the occasion that I have not overburdened another. Lord have mercy.

By the way I'm not a liberal catholic, although not a church scholar when it comes to sacred tradition I do know what the bible says and consider myself conservative and obediant to the teachings of holy mother church that I know.

Onward christian souls.

But if a priest does refuse have a meeting with some elders of the church and seek there advice and go with them to the priest with the matter, and if still refusing somehow alert the bishop. If the general consensus of the congregation is to receive on the hand then just humbly accept it, it will be good for your salvation.

Any other ideas to solve this seemingly dividing matter in the church?

Edited February 13, 2018 by Tab'le De'Bah-Rye

[SaintOfVirtue]

I've personally never seen a priest refuse to distribute communion on the tongue. I don't think the church is divided on this matter.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

OK cool thanks. I wasn't refused at the alter I was pulled aside at another time.

[chrysostom]

A lot of dioceses have reception on the hand as the norm and that is within their right and competence as determined by Rome. This is one case where a diocesan norm does not exclude individual Catholics from choosing to receive on the tongue, because receiving on the tongue is universally allowed.

Edited March 5, 2018 by chrysostom

[GreenScapularedHuman]

Quote

http://www.usccb.org/prayer-and-worship/the-mass/order-of-mass/liturgy-of-the-eucharist/the-reception-of-holy-communion-at-mass.cfm
Those who receive Communion may receive either in the hand or on the tongue, and the decision should be that of the individual receiving, not of the person distributing Communion. (Paragraph 8, Sentence 1)

If memory serves the norm in the United States is standing and on the hand with a slight but reverent bow before receiving. But that doesn't negate or necessarily discourage the option of the faithful to receive on the tongue.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

3 hours ago, GreenScapularedHuman said:

If memory serves the norm in the United States is standing and on the hand with a slight but reverent bow before receiving. But that doesn't negate or necessarily discourage the option of the faithful to receive on the tongue.

Australia is the same, bow then receive.

 

[PaxCordisJesu]

Priests should never refuse someone communion on the tongue! ( Except for during COVID).

This might be a little off topic, but it's important to understand that receiving in the hand is NOT wrong. The Church allows it, and the early Christians always used to receive this way. Yes, receiving on the hand can be irreverent, but so can receiving on the tongue. Reverence is not a posture, it's an attitude of the heart. I never received in the hand till Coronavirus happened, and used to think it was wrong. I was raised with a very scrupulous priest who would rant for hours about the "crumbs" that people lost through receiving on the hand. Now I know from experience that there are no visible crumbs, and if there are any, they're microscopic. Thus, you couldn't possibly be held responsible for them. And just think about it: today, living in the 21st century with modern technology and whatnot, do you really think we can't produce hosts that don't "shed", so to speak? If you don't know anything about how hosts are made, research it. They are hardened for weeks, and before packaging are shaken and shaken and brushed like crazy to remove every little loose particle. By the time they get around to being consecrated, I'm willing to bet there's no "crumbs" at all on them. 

Sorry for such a long post! I still feel guilty for judging those people back in the day who I saw receiving on the hand. Mea culpa. 

P.S: since there's such a lot of nuns in the altar bread business, why don't some of them do a study on why receiving in the hand is NOT irreverent? ( The attitude of the communicant not taken into consideration). They'd be able to back it up with evidence, too.

[JHFamily]

On 3/4/2018 at 9:41 PM, GreenScapularedHuman said:

If memory serves the norm in the United States is standing and on the hand with a slight but reverent bow before receiving.

True, this is the norm in the United States. However, the norm for the Church universal is kneeling and on the tongue. The United States has a dispensation from this norm and priests are not allowed to refuse communion to those who wish to receive otherwise. (Not picking, just clarifying.)

[JoeFL77]

  

JHFamily, thanks for the clarification.  A big difference between a dispensation and a norm.

 

In my opinion, this is because we took down the altar rails.  In the past, we could all kneel, receive on the tongue easily, all while not slowing down the process.  Now, if you want to kneel, it slows down things. 

 

If you want to kneel, you stand out and slow things down.  The norm has become a less than optimal.  Reverence has become showy. 

[fides' Jack]

On 12/15/2020 at 1:51 PM, PaxCordisJesu said:

Now I know from experience that there are no visible crumbs, and if there are any, they're microscopic.

This is blatantly false.  I don't know what experience you have, but I know from my experience holding a paten that there are visible crumbs from a significant percentage of those who receive in the hand.  There are visible crumbs on the paten every single time the patens are used.

I have a friend who, last year, was accepted into a monastery.  He's not able to talk with the outside world much, but did have the opportunity for a short while on Christmas day.  He called his family and related something extraordinary that's happening there.  He's witnessed it, and all the monks there have witnessed it.

During Mass (regularly), the paten on the altar will suddenly fill up with host particles, out of nowhere.  The monks there have just accepted that angels are picking up fallen host fragments from around the world or wherever they get them, so they can be properly consumed.  And so that's what they do.

On 12/15/2020 at 1:51 PM, PaxCordisJesu said:

Yes, receiving on the hand can be irreverent, but so can receiving on the tongue. Reverence is not a posture, it's an attitude of the heart.

It's both. 

On 12/15/2020 at 1:51 PM, PaxCordisJesu said:

Priests should never refuse someone communion on the tongue! ( Except for during COVID).

Even during COVID, it should never happen.  Priests don't have the authority to refuse Communion for that reason.  The Church document doesn't say, "unless there's a viral outbreak".  

On 12/15/2020 at 1:51 PM, PaxCordisJesu said:

By the time they get around to being consecrated, I'm willing to bet there's no "crumbs" at all on them. 

They have to be bread.  Bread is fragile and can break, creating hosts.  The moment one touches a host, it has the potential of creating crumbs.

On 12/15/2020 at 1:51 PM, PaxCordisJesu said:

Sorry for such a long post! I still feel guilty for judging those people back in the day who I saw receiving on the hand. Mea culpa. 

I know there are those who do judge people for receiving in the hand.  Not all those who advocate for receiving on the tongue do so.  The Church allows it, and I submit to the authority of the Church.

Edited April 27, 2021 by fides' Jack
clarification

[fides' Jack]

2 hours ago, fides' Jack said:

creating hosts. 

Woops - creating crumbs.  Not creating hosts...

[PaxCordisJesu]

20 hours ago, fides' Jack said:

This is blatantly false.  I don't know what experience you have, but I know from my experience holding a paten that there are visible crumbs from a significant percentage of those who receive in the hand.  There are visible crumbs on the paten every single time the patens are used.

From my experience receiving in the hand, there are no crumbs. Not one! I've never, ever, ever, seen one. 

 

20 hours ago, fides' Jack said:

Even during COVID, it should never happen.  Priests don't have the authority to refuse Communion for that reason.  The Church document doesn't say, "unless there's a viral outbreak".  

Priests do have the authority to refuse communion with permission from their bishop, and that's been given in our diocese with COVID. If a priest feels uncomfortable distributing communion in the tongue during this time, he may refuse to give them communion. For instance, our pastor has heart problems that place him at high risk if he gets COVID. He has to refuse communion on the tongue, because it puts him at risk. Plus, if he went to the hospital for COVID, none of us would be able to receive communion at all because we wouldn't have Mass.

 

20 hours ago, fides' Jack said:

They have to be bread.  Bread is fragile and can break, creating hosts.  The moment one touches a host, it has the potential of creating crumbs

 

It's a wafer! Unleavened bread! Hardly any potential to create crumbs! Have you ever seen the process of making communion wafers? The nuns who make them go through a lot to bake them, dry them, brush them etc so they will be the texture they are. Did you not read my post?

[fides' Jack]

20 minutes ago, PaxCordisJesu said:

Priests do have the authority to refuse communion with permission from their bishop

The universal permission has been granted from Rome.  I'd have to see some kind of documentation showing that a bishop has the authority to supersede that.

21 minutes ago, PaxCordisJesu said:

For instance, our pastor has heart problems that place him at high risk if he gets COVID. He has to refuse communion on the tongue, because it puts him at risk

He has a higher risk by giving communion on the hand.

22 minutes ago, PaxCordisJesu said:

It's a wafer! Unleavened bread! Hardly any potential to create crumbs! Have you ever seen the process of making communion wafers? The nuns who make them go through a lot to bake them, dry them, brush them etc so they will be the texture they are. Did you not read my post?

Perhaps you didn't read mine.  Unleavened bread still has plenty of crumbs.  It's not just nuns who make them...  Plenty of crumbs, and even more potential for crumbs.

 

In this case, I don't think we're going to find any common ground.  As someone who has helped distribute communion, I can tell you there are plenty of crumbs.  I've seen them myself, hundreds of times.  And I can see you completely avoided what I had to say about miraculous goings-on with crumbs in a monastery.  I get that it's anecdotal, and you might not believe it, anyway, but that wouldn't be happening if you were right.  

[JHFamily]

1 hour ago, PaxCordisJesu said:

From my experience receiving in the hand, there are no crumbs. Not one! I've never, ever, ever, seen one. 

The problem is that crumbs are not very discernable because of the color, the oils and moisture, the texture of the hands, etc. There was actually a very well done and proper science experiment which shows that crumbs are common, and you can see the results here.

Anyone who has worked in a sacristy can tell you that the bags of hosts come with easily discernable crumbs. Then, when they are moved to an airtight container, there are easily discernable crumbs that fall to the bottom of the container. I have heard many an altar boy surprised at the number of particles on a paten after the distribution of Holy Communion. I have seen priests having to do a second ablution because there are still discernable particles.

To say there are no crumbs is naive.

On a side note, one Sunday, our parish priest counted the number of times he actually touched someone while distributing Holy Communion (I would guess about 200 went to Holy Communion). The final count: on the tongue - 0; on the hand - 12. I know that's strictly anecdotal, but it was interesting.

Edited April 28, 2021 by JHFamily

[ReasonableFaith]

22 hours ago, fides' Jack said:

During Mass (regularly), the paten on the altar will suddenly fill up with host particles, out of nowhere.  The monks there have just accepted that angels are picking up fallen host fragments from around the world or wherever they get them, so they can be properly consumed.  And so that's what they do.

Perhaps some may be  interesting in visiting a monastery where such angelic Eucharistic miracles are regularly taking place. 

Is more information available about the monastery and their accommodations?