Jerusalem as Capitol

[havok579257]

23 minutes ago, Era Might said:

I honestly think it's touching that you think Trump is such an upstanding and honest man of integrity that his objective as president is to right history's wrongs and fulfill unfulfilled promises. It must be lovely to live in a world where you have such a man as your president. To think, that in 2017, there is such a man of honor who looks at the world in terms of faithful promise-keeping.

You and I live in different worlds, but yours must be nice, I have to admit.

that's not the world we live in and again your just resorting to partisan politics.  Trump has done many bad things.  although just because someone has done many bad and wrong things does not mean we ignore if they do anything right.  Bill Clinton did so many bad and wrong things but most people excluding the extreme partisans can agree he did do somethings right.  

 

i don't like a lot of the stuff Trump does. I couldn't stand Obama.  Although it didn't stop me from acknowledging anything good he did.  You are so crazy with your hate for Trump you refuse to acknowledge anything good Trump does.  I mean tomorrow Trump could cure world hunger and bring peace to the middle east and yet you would still run him down for it.  You would complain no matter what he does.  You are extremely partisan and blinded by your hate.  Your completely not objective on anything Trump.  Its one thing to dislike Trump and disagree with him on most things but to not acknowledge anything he does right just shows your partisanship and you being right about Trump being evil takes precedence over the good outcomes for anybody.  You would rather be right than acknowledge Trump has done anything in his life that was good.

[Era Might]

Just now, dominicansoul said:

You don't know me at all.  

 

It's obvious you don't know much about anyone you disagree with...

 

I know I don't know you. I just know what you posted. You said you think this was about keeping a promise. I think that's a charitable and generous interpretation.

[dominicansoul]

That's funny cos it says something more than just that in your post above.  You still have time to edit all those other parts telling me who I believe Trump is. 

Edited December 8, 2017 by dominicansoul

[Era Might]

Just now, havok579257 said:

that's not the world we live in and again your just resorting to partisan politics.  Trump has done many bad things.  although just because someone has done many bad and wrong things does not mean we ignore if they do anything right.  Bill Clinton did so many bad and wrong things but most people excluding the extreme partisans can agree he did do somethings right.  

 

i don't like a lot of the stuff Trump does. I couldn't stand Obama.  Although it didn't stop me from acknowledging anything good he did.  You are so crazy with your hate for Trump you refuse to acknowledge anything good Trump does.  I mean tomorrow Trump could cure world hunger and bring peace to the middle east and yet you would still run him down for it.  You would complain no matter what he does.  You are extremely partisan and blinded by your hate.  Your completely not objective on anything Trump.  Its one thing to dislike Trump and disagree with him on most things but to not acknowledge anything he does right just shows your partisanship and you being right about Trump being evil takes precedence over the good outcomes for anybody.  You would rather be right than acknowledge Trump has done anything in his life that was good.

When he does something good I'll acknowledge it. How many things am I supposed to acknowledge to be considered fair-minded?

Trump gave some recognition to the opioid epidemic. I think that was good, even though I think his "tough on crime" ideology is connected to it. If it's a white problem, it's a national problem. If it's blacks and browns, it's a crime problem.

I'm racking my brain trying to think of something else that I think was good. Can't think of it. Some things are necessary, according to the logic of what it means to hold power.  But "good" things, I can't think of much. I don't consider moving the embassy to Jerusalem good or bad. It's a geopolitical decision, and the only way to judge it is whether it solves a problem, improves international relations and contributes to a strategy. But I don't applaud this (or condemn it) for ideological reasons. I think part of the reason the decision was made was to play to the fanatical Evangelicals in America who think American foreign policy is tied up with the Book of Revelation and Armageddon. And yes, I think that was part of Trump's reason for making this decision, not that he's a bible believer, but he knows who his base is.

3 minutes ago, dominicansoul said:

That's funny cos it says something more than just that in your post above.  You still have time to edit all those other parts telling me who I believe Trump is. 

That's your business who you believe Trump is. I only care what your interpretation of his Administration and platform is. I don't believe you can read an Administration apart from a larger analysis of the country and other political and ideological currents. So, my interpretation of Trump is also an interpretation of America and the global situation. I don't look at Trump in a vacuum.

[dominicansoul]

I've only posted simple truths of what he did.  He kept a promise he made during his campaign.  I haven't even said I agree with it or not.  You've already judged I see him in a kind light.    I don't but I don't look at him through pensive bitter hatred either.  

 

 

 

[Era Might]

1 minute ago, dominicansoul said:

I've only posted simple truths of what he did.  He kept a promise he made during his campaign.  I haven't even said I agree with it or not.  You've already judged I see him in a kind light.    I don't but I don't look at him through pensive bitter hatred either.  

Ok, so you haven't said anything about him. So I guess we're not talking about anything then. Let me know if you have an opinion.

[dominicansoul]

Okay, it's about time you asked. Sheesh.

This is what I think about it...

I hate it, because there is going to be obvious retaliation from those who want Palestinian Nationalism.  The Jews and Muslims hated each other before, this will escalate into more violence, more deaths.  

We truly truly need to be striving for PEACE, and even if we haven't seen anything close to PEACE in the 70 something years since this all erupted, I believe this to be a step backward and not forward. 

Past presidents and Trump all promised to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.  Other presidents were bullied out of it (because I do believe that Palestinians bully the opposition and they are just as stubborn as the Jews are,) but Trump doesn't get bullied out of anything.  

(Granted, I have agreed on some of what he's done, and I applaud him for it.  But in this case, I think its a terrible thing and it will have bitter consequences.  It's not entirely his fault, we have two other parties here who are actually responsible for the violent reactions: the muslims and the jews.  If only they could put their poo together, we wouldn't have to play peace maker all the time.)  

[havok579257]

37 minutes ago, Era Might said:

When he does something good I'll acknowledge it. How many things am I supposed to acknowledge to be considered fair-minded?

Trump gave some recognition to the opioid epidemic. I think that was good, even though I think his "tough on crime" ideology is connected to it. If it's a white problem, it's a national problem. If it's blacks and browns, it's a crime problem.

I'm racking my brain trying to think of something else that I think was good. Can't think of it. Some things are necessary, according to the logic of what it means to hold power.  But "good" things, I can't think of much. I don't consider moving the embassy to Jerusalem good or bad. It's a geopolitical decision, and the only way to judge it is whether it solves a problem, improves international relations and contributes to a strategy. But I don't applaud this (or condemn it) for ideological reasons. I think part of the reason the decision was made was to play to the fanatical Evangelicals in America who think American foreign policy is tied up with the Book of Revelation and Armageddon. And yes, I think that was part of Trump's reason for making this decision, not that he's a bible believer, but he knows who his base is.

That's your business who you believe Trump is. I only care what your interpretation of his Administration and platform is. I don't believe you can read an Administration apart from a larger analysis of the country and other political and ideological currents. So, my interpretation of Trump is also an interpretation of America and the global situation. I don't look at Trump in a vacuum.

 

see you can't even acknowledge anything Trump does.  you have to turn it into something it's not.  something so you can say, see, Trump is the most evil man on the planet.  even when he appears to do something good, its just to pass his evil agenda. 

 

Good things Trump has done:

1. Placed Gorsech on the bench. The only people who have been opposed to this on the grounds he is a bad judge is the most partisan left.  Moderates and those who lean left site him as being a good judge.  They don't agree with his beliefs but they acknowledge his work as a judge is very good.

2. The economy is moving in the right direction because of Trump.  Trump's presidency has had an effect on the economy in a positive way.  

3. He recognized the opiod crisis and is working to deal with it.

4. He appointed Jeff Sessions to AG. Someone who had bipartisan support for years in congress and only now the issue comes up because democrats can not been seen as helping Trump in anyway, no matter how good the candidate for AG is.

 

Just a few good things he did.  Although I am sure you will turn this into its all some elaborate plan of Trump's to bring back slavery, put the KKK in power or some other nonsense partisan scream.

[Era Might]

2 minutes ago, dominicansoul said:

Okay, it's about time you asked. Sheesh.

This is what I think about it...

I hate it, because there is going to be obvious retaliation from those who want Palestinian Nationalism.  The Jews and Muslims hated each other before, this will escalate into more violence, more deaths.  

We truly truly need to be striving for PEACE, and even if we haven't seen anything close to PEACE in the 70 something years since this all erupted, I believe this to be a step backward and not forward. 

Past presidents and Trump all promised to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.  Other presidents were bullied out of it (because I do believe that Palestinians bully the opposition and they are just as stubborn as the Jews are,) but Trump doesn't get bullied out of anything.  

(Granted, I have agreed on some of what he's done, and I applaud him for it.  But in this case, I think its a terrible thing and it will have bitter consequences.  It's not entirely his fault, we have two other parties here who are actually responsible for the violent reactions: the muslims and the jews.  If only they could put their poo together, we wouldn't have to play peace maker all the time.)  

A sensible argument, but I don't think (from Trump's POV) it has anything with Jews or Palestinians. This advances Trump's interests. If it didn't, he wouldn't have done it. He doesn't care about what happened 70 years ago. He's here to pursue his interests. He likes to repeat the phrase "Radical Islamic Terrorism" because it's a good propaganda slogan, not because he cares anything about the Middle East, Islam, or even terrorism. But, I think the question of violence is probably not a main concern of his, because he wants a strong police and military order, both at home and internationally. If this causes any problems, he has the US military at his disposal. He can't be bullied because he has nothing personally at stake. When you are the world's greatest empire, you don't worry about such petty questions, except as tactical considerations. 

[Anomaly]

[KnightofChrist]

It wouldn't be surprising to find out that a high number of groups, especially violent groups, that do not recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel also do not recognize Israel's right to exist.

[dominicansoul]

1 hour ago, Anomaly said:

i sincerely apologize

[Anomaly]

Ignore that it was Trump who is president.    What about the merits or consequences of the action?

Why not?

Okay, only if Israel meets certain conditions?  Such as what?

No because it upsets Palestine?Do they have a right to violently react?

No because it upsets Muslims?   Do they have a right to violently react?

[Seven77]

This is an absolutely terrible and dangerous decision that does nothing to advance the cause of peace. How is this going to allow for a two state solution (the only solution)? 

Palestinians--Muslims and Christians–– have been treated as second-class citizens. This is yet another slap in the face.

 Jerusalem should be open, belonging to both sides and yet belonging to no one... 

[Anomaly]

Why doesn’t Israel get to have Jerusalem as it’s Capitol, since it’s been the cultural and religious capitol far longer than any other realistic claim?   

So previous proclamations by Presidents have been lip service, lies, with no intention of ever letting it happen?