Depression

[Kuya Lee]

Immaculata - my thoughts and prayers are with you girl - and with all the phatmassers who're going or have gone through similar trials..

As other PMers will attest, you're definitely not the only one struggling with these problems.

Some of my closest friends really struggle with this.. and it's only been the last few years that I have been able to come to terms with what a cross it is for some. I always wish I had the right words to say, or the right advice to give - but everyone's onset, symptoms and reaction to treatments differ incredibly.

You are no doubt hurting - emotionallly - and when that pain becomes become overwhelming it is less painful to hurt our bodies and focus on the physical pain rather than to feel your emotions eating you from inside. You're not alone..

Don't be afraid to talk to someone about what you're feeling.. if not a trained counsellor, a trusted and mature friend is a great help - but someone who will listen without judgement, and who can appreciate the seriousness of the matter is crucial.

Your co-dependence sounds hauntingly familiar- I am sorry that things didn't turn out better - and moreso, that it sounds like he has not been mature enough to realise the profound effect he has had on your life. I was once like that - and my girlfriend was once like you. I feel I may agree with your chaplain.. But does realising your co-dependence stems from your self esteem issues, which feeds your emotional anguish, alleviate your hurt? Probably not..

I do not know if the above has been of any help- the best attempt we can give in this forum environment may not be an ideal sounding board, but rather a sharing of experiences of how many of us have identified, come to terms with, and maybe even conquered the debilitating effects of depression



You are a child of God.. his beautiful daughter, worthy to love and be loved .. family and friends - even us phatmassers on the other side of Earth. :wub:

Your Kuya (older brother) in Christ,
Lee aka Laurence

[dlz7486]

Immaculata,

I know exactly how you feel. I just graduated high school third in my class, I'm going to Notre Dame in the fall, there's always been pressure on me to do better. I'm a perfectionist, and I'll admit it. I never had any self-esteem and I've always been very self-conscious. Moreover, my boyfriend of two years hit me and verbally abused me earlier this year, and I stopped speaking to him. Needless to say, I became very depressed and had many thoughts of suicide.

Let me just say right now, you [i]can[/i] get professional help and there is no shame in that. Also know that all suicidal thoughts are temporary. They will go away, even when it doesn't seem like it.

When I first started becoming depressed, I went and saw my parish priest, because I felt I had nowhere to turn to. He was very helpful - he knew me well enough so I felt comfortable talking to him, and he advised me in many ways. He got me to report my ex-boyfriend for counts of physical abuse, and he prayed for me a lot. But even he saw that I needed professional help, and he urged it. Initially I was in denial - only crazy people need therapists, right? WRONG. I held out, looking for help in other places, and long story short, my priest had a meeting with my mom and my youth minister, and they all got me a counselor. I hated him for that back then, but now, looking back, I can see how necessary it was.

I went to therapy for a few months and it helped tremendously - I am now proudly depression-free, and have been for a couple months or so!!!! If you are feeling depressed, you can look for help in certain places. But take it from me, the only real way to get the help you need is to see a counselor. Don't think a counselor wouldn't understand your problems; they'd be the person who would.

In my situation, there were certain things I could talk about with my priest, but it was a lot easier to talk to my counselor (who's a female) about other things. Having a female counselor might work well for you too.

People, mostly adults, often underestimate the magnitude of teenage problems. They shrug it off as "teen angst." It's not that at all. Also, people used to ask me why I was feeling depressed, if I had so much going for me - academics, my faith, etc. It just made me feel more guilty. If you have serious depression, see a counselor.

[quote]Does anyone ever feel really really fake? Like, I look at myself sometimes, and I look like such a great Catholic and star student and perfect child on the outside, but I know that inside I'm all messed up and angry and hateful... [/quote]

That was me. I can see a lot of my former, depressed self in you right now. Do yourself a favor and get some help. Talk to someone. I wish I did earlier.

Also, my depressive time made my faith grow tenfold. I became much more devout and dependant on God. It gave me time to pray and do a lot of soul-searching. Through my struggles, I realized that God's always there. He helped me a lot. I'm so thankful for my faith, because without it, I don't know how I could have made it through my depression.

You're not alone. The Lord will take care of you.

I am praying for you, and I'm here for you if you want to talk. Believe me, I've been there. It's scary, but you will make it through. Everything's possible with God!

[BurkeFan]

[quote name='dlz7486' date='Jun 27 2004, 09:04 PM'] I'm going to Notre Dame in the fall [/quote]
A number of my friends are going there this fall as well! You'll be, I think, in good company.

[immaculata]

[quote name='BurkeFan' date='Jun 27 2004, 10:05 PM'] A number of my friends are going there this fall as well! You'll be, I think, in good company. [/quote]
I'm looking at Notre Dame, as well! I'm making a trip there and to St. Mary's College in July.

[immaculata]

[quote name='Kuya Lee' date='Jun 27 2004, 08:52 PM'] But does realising your co-dependence stems from your self esteem issues, which feeds your emotional anguish, alleviate your hurt? Probably not.. [/quote]
You're right, it doesn't.. in fact, it only makes me feel worse. It seems like whenever I look at myself and see the things that I'm doing wrong, I don't feel motivated at all to change them, I only feel more depressed. It's like, I hate the fact that I have a low self esteem, which only makes my self esteem lower! It's crazy, I know.

Thanks for your kind words, Kuya and dlz! I hope anyone else who is having this same problem can read this tread and find some answers like I am. :group:

[immaculata]

[quote name='Kuya Lee' date='Jun 27 2004, 08:52 PM'] Your co-dependence sounds hauntingly familiar- I am sorry that things didn't turn out better - and moreso, that it sounds like he has not been mature enough to realise the profound effect he has had on your life. [/quote]
Wow. I can't figure out how you knew that about him... I didn't explain much what was going on in that situation, but you're dead right about how he's been acting.

He and I were very very close friends for a long time, until he started hanging out with some very manipulative girls. They've convinced him that I'm emotionally messed up (which I probably am) and that I'm not worth his time. He's totally unaware, I believe, about the way that they're manipulating him and turning him against me. It's really really hurt. These were girls that I trusted and were my former best friends, and now I've come to realize how fake they are.

But yes, he isn't mature enough to understand how to deal with this. When I told him I cut myself, he kind of laughed it off. It's really disappointing that all of my friends are turning out to be completely different than I thought they were.

[Soldier4Him]

Ask God for answers as well sister. There's a reason you're going through this, and deep down, even though it doesn't feel like it right now, it's making you stronger. The Big Guy can provide more answers than any human. He may choose to speak through some people, but ask with a "direct connection." They always help.

[Kuya Lee]

[quote name='immaculata' date='Jun 27 2004, 09:17 PM']Wow. I can't figure out how you knew that about him... I didn't explain much what was going on in that situation, but you're dead right about how he's been acting.

He and I were very very close friends for a long time, until he started hanging out with some very manipulative girls. They've convinced him that I'm emotionally messed up (which I probably am) and that I'm not worth his time. He's totally unaware, I believe, about the way that they're manipulating him and turning him against me. It's really really hurt. These were girls that I trusted and were my former best friends, and now I've come to realize how fake they are. 

But yes, he isn't mature enough to understand how to deal with this. When I told him I cut myself, he kind of laughed it off.  It's really disappointing that all of my friends are turning out to be completely different than I thought they were.[/quote]
I'm sad to hear that about your friends, Immaculata, that is terrible

It has been a few years since high school for me, but one thing I dont miss was that kind of immaturity. And he laughed when you told him?? Immaculata- a guy who is not even moderately sensitive to your emotional state, to the point of laughing off such a serious revelation does not deserve your affection.

I suppose the reaction of your ex and your ex-friends mirrors the general feeling of those who cannot understand depression to those that have it, unfortunately. Again, I say I used to be in this boat. To those who don't know what it does first hand, the symptoms of depression are very much alien- they seem unimaginable. Combine this with teenage/youth immaturity and you have a dangerous combination- in your case, what could have formed an emotional support base for you in your troubles has now become a cause of angst. I am blunt in saying these kind of friends are not the ones who should really matter to you

[quote]
You're right, it doesn't.. in fact, it only makes me feel worse. It seems like whenever I look at myself and see the things that I'm doing wrong, I don't feel motivated at all to change them, I only feel more depressed. It's like, I hate the fact that I have a low self esteem, which only makes my self esteem lower!  It's crazy, I know.
[/quote]

Naw.. its not crazy Its perfectly understandable - Like someone who knows they're in a hole, wants to get out, has a rope to get out, but doesnt know how to climb. The support of your counsellor, family, friends and most importantly your strong resolution, faith and determination is your rope. Climbing is the process of self discovery, led ideally by your counsellor, that may unravel your thoughts and help the healing and renewal. You will emerge, like many phatmassers here, a butterfly - even more beautiful, stronger all the while and with a deeper appreciation for those who suffer - and what a great gift it is from God Himself!

I could ramble on more, but I will take a stab in the dark here which I hope will help provide you with another base in your starting point in fighting this.. beginning with a story:

/rant
I myself had a similar dilemma, albeit much less severe. I was the head prefect, and had the 2nd highest marks in my grade - and yet I was unhappy..

My parents had come to expect so much after years of As that my achievements in my final year seemed to go by unnoticed except for my failing to win Dux & scholastic awards.

This is relevant because, for some time, the way they acted indicated a *conditional* love based on scholastic & 'external' measures of achievement. My self worth with them became a factor of the above - and when perfection is not attained? I felt bad.

Does this mean I had any cause to feel bad, for example, for not being Dux? No.

It means that they had helped develop in me the unseen & unspoken implication that if excellent grades were not achieved, there was disappointment in me as a person.
/end rant

My point of the above is that the way we feel is too often a function of the way *others feel about us* - a basic assumption that their view of us is always right.

As your friends have now shown - this is certainly not the case.


You seem a young, beautiful, talented, intelligent and focused young girl - by your own admission you seem a perfect role model on the outside but your inner feelings aren't congruent.. Why? You are angry and resentful for a reason.

Probe your feelings, your innermost desires of your heart - only then can you understand the way you feel, and decide if and how it should be controlled.


Again, Immaculata - I hope my experiences shared may be relevant/helpful -

Kuya Lee

[Norseman82]

[quote name='BeenaBobba' date='Jun 26 2004, 11:45 PM'] Hi Norseman,

I agree with you to a degree about hanging around with depressed people a lot. There is a possibility that the negativity could further depress someone; however, I've spent time around depressed people, and it actually made me feel better. They could understand where I was coming from when I spoke with them. Feeling understood made me feel a bit better.

God bless,

Jen [/quote]
Actually, what I was referring to was the "subculture" that gets created by some support groups where they wall themselves up into a "ghetto" of sorts and isolate themselves. Certainly sharing experiences with others who are in your situation can be of tremendous help in realizing one is not alone and validating many of our experiences. In some senses, it can make us realize that we are NOT crazy. But I refuse to be isolated from the world, I want to enjoy the world and live a normal life, and if anyone tries to stop me they will regret it, the only question is whether justice comes in this life or the next.

[BeenaBobba]

[quote name='Norseman82' date='Jun 28 2004, 02:16 AM'] Actually, what I was referring to was the "subculture" that gets created by some support groups where they wall themselves up into a "ghetto" of sorts and isolate themselves. Certainly sharing experiences with others who are in your situation can be of tremendous help in realizing one is not alone and validating many of our experiences. In some senses, it can make us realize that we are NOT crazy. But I refuse to be isolated from the world, I want to enjoy the world and live a normal life, and if anyone tries to stop me they will regret it, the only question is whether justice comes in this life or the next. [/quote]
I see what you're saying now, and I agree.

God bless,

Jen

[Ash Wednesday]

Here's another something great to think about: in life and the big picture, high school is but a sliver of what life is all about.

I didn't date in high school, but a lot of my friends were somewhat shallow, others were a humorless bunch. I keep in touch with TWO people I've known in high school (out of maybe a hundred acquaintances... Really, there is only one of these two that I can really identify with right now in my life. Neither she or I will be attending the 10 year class reunion we have coming up.

Thank God there is so much to look forward to, and so much more than high school.

I started dating in my 20s (I was late bloomer), the one I had the most serious relationship with was an adult, he acted more like a "boy" and I felt 10 years older than him, so our relationship didn't last. Dealing with depression makes you older beyond your years and a lot of people around you will seem pretty insipid and immature (especially the men you date)... you can tell the difference between those who have faced the hard knocks of life, and those who have not.

A lot of friends of mine over the years have also had depression. The ones that are positive and don't let themselves wallow in it are especially great to be with. Sometimes (and I think this is the "ghetto" thing that Norseman is talking about) people who are miserable and depressed will try to keep you down, because they want to see you as miserable as them. But you will know which friends are worth their weight in gold, and which are best being kept at arm's length or cut off.

[dlz7486]

Keep in mind that all this is happening for a reason. You may seem resentful, asking why this is happening to you, but God has bigger plans for you. Maybe He wants you to discover something about yourself - I discovered a lot about myself during my struggles, it was actually very surprising. Maybe He wants to pull you closer to Him, He wants you to turn to Him, through your trial and suffering. Maybe He wants to let you know that He is always there for you.

I think, though, it's because He knows what you're going through. He sees you, wonderful on the outside, but with no self-esteem. I think He just wants you to be able to look at yourself and think, "I am so beautiful because I'm God's creation. I may not be perfect in my eyes or others' eyes, but I'm God's perfect creation, HE LOVES ME more than I'll ever know, and there isn't anyone like me!" He wants you to love yourself like He loves you.

God cries when He sees you in pain. He just wants to wrap His arms around you and love you, and tell you it's going to be okay. Trust in Him, He'll lead you down the right paths, I promise.

Jesus was forsaken by his friends and nailed to a cross. Don't think He doesn't know what pain, abandonment, loneliness, betrayal, and hopelessness feel like. He's been there and wants to help you.

I know how hard it is, to feel like you're alone. I felt as if everyone in my life had forsaken me, and I was alone all the time. Just know that you are not alone - God LOVES you, your family and friends love you, we all love you. There will always be someone there who would drop anything to help you out, no matter what it feels like. I've been there.

Find someone to talk to. Talking helps a lot. And it's okay to get a counselor! Really, with the type of depression you're dealing with, I strongly recommend it. You don't want to be stuck feeling like this for a long time. Do something about it, you'll feel so much better!!

You're in my prayers!

[ladybug]

I'm so sorry you are having depression....

And many of us with depression have a religious addiction disorder too. Religion is good...but if you feel that you don't do this or that daily ritual that God is going to punish you or banish you...then there is a problem.

I have social anxiety disorder and it causes me to feel depressed. It's hard for me to go around large numbers of people (including church)...I feel like I'm panicking.

If you ever need to talk with me too, I'm available. I know somewhat about how depression feels. I don't take drugs for it either. I try to fix it myself by trying to force myself to be exposed to the situations I fear.

But, I've been reading that people with depression have a problem producing seratonin. And I think sometimes mystical christian experiences can cause a rush of seratonin and so that is why I think I have a religious addiction too, and then I have lows where I beat myself up and feel forsaken by God and don't want anything to do with it because it reminds me of how 'bad' I am. I'm getting tired of the roller coaster ride.

I could not handle a breakup with my husband. If he ever left, I think I would die of a broken heart and not be able to move on. I'm definately a co-depedent.

There is a place for Christian Recovery for people suffering from trauma here. [url="http://www.nacronline.com"]http://www.nacronline.com[/url]

I know it's not catholic, but non-denom....but it is a lifesaver in those dark moments. Subscribe to their daily devotional if you can. The site is run by a psychologist who is a christain and our sort of problems are her specialty.

Edited July 19, 2004 by ladybug

[shelly_freak]

im praying for all ya

[Lil Red]

get the book, When Living Hurts by Sol Gordon

it saved my life more than once.