And now Torches are symbols of Hatred

[dominicansoul]

I don't understand why people keep bringing up political parties?  I'm speaking ideologies.  

When I read Divini Redemptoris, I am struck by how liberalism, which I believe to have branched off from communism, is sooo closely related to the systematic mind control over the masses employed by the communist at the time it was written.  

Quote

17. There is another explanation for the rapid diffusion of the Communistic ideas now seeping into every nation, great and small, advanced and backward, so that no corner of the earth is free from them. This explanation is to be found in a propaganda so truly diabolical that the world has perhaps never witnessed its like before. It is directed from one common center. It is shrewdly adapted to the varying conditions of diverse peoples. It has at its disposal great financial resources, gigantic organizations, international congresses, and countless trained workers. It makes use of pamphlets and reviews, of cinema, theater and radio, of schools and even universities. Little by little it penetrates into all classes of the people and even reaches the better-minded groups of the community, with the result that few are aware of the poison which increasingly pervades their minds and hearts.

I find this paragraph alone could have been written about today's social engineering manufactured by liberalism.  

[havok579257]

15 hours ago, KnightofChrist said:

@dominicansoul you're wasting your life force. Even if you find actions by the left that are clearly wrong, unjustified, wicked, or whatever that subject will be ignored for the most part. Until you point out it's being ignored then it'll get a few more posts, maybe, and go back to being ignored.

The vast majority of people on here acnologe the problems with the left and call them out all the time.  How many people on here blast the left for abortion,  the transgender bathroom fiasco and the left's abandonment of God.

 

What a lot of us take issue with is this assumption that conservatives are completely right on everything they do.  That theis point of view is 100% right.  That if they do something wrong conservatives try to justify or downplay their wrong doings. 

 

Conservativism  is not completely right. Liberalism is not completely right.  Catholicism is completely right. Conservativism and catholicism are not the same thing.

 

[Anomaly]

1 hour ago, havok579257 said:

The vast majority of people on here acnologe (acknowledges) fify) the problems with the left and call them out all the time.  How many people on here blast the left for abortion,  the transgender bathroom fiasco and the left's abandonment of God.

 

What a lot of us take issue with is this assumption that conservatives are completely right on everything they do.  That theis point of view is 100% right.  That if they do something wrong conservatives try to justify or downplay their wrong doings. 

 

Conservativism  is not completely right. Liberalism is not completely right.  Catholicism is completely right. Conservativism and catholicism are not the same thing.

 

Actually, it’s the knee jerk reactions of defending or attacking the stereotypes that’s annoying and frustrates thoughtful discussion.  

For example, though he says he’s republican, Trump isn’t in lockstep with Republicans.   He isn’t close to being consistently conservative either.   And although he is orange, has bad hair, and tweets too much, Trump is not evil incarnate.

Just as the Catholic Church isn’t categorically opposed to the Death Penalty, just that it believes it isn’t needed. 

The same as having a border isn’t and regulating immigration isn’t morally wrong.  

Banning torches is a silly overreaction, just as getting all worked up about it is silly.   Chuckle at it and point out that it’s unreasonable to take offense, else you demonstrate that the expected reaction to every little thing is Def-Con 90+++

You’ve got real issues if everyone is having an issue, or assuming there is an issue or conspiracy, or serious social erosion with every silly fault, rudeness, coarseness, misguided effort, mistake, slight error, etc.

Edited October 12, 2017 by Anomaly

[dominicansoul]

50 minutes ago, Anomaly said:

Actually, it’s the knee jerk reactions of defending or attacking the stereotypes that’s annoying and frustrates thoughtful discussion.  

For example, though he says he’s republican, Trump isn’t in lockstep with Republicans.   He isn’t close to being consistently conservative either.   And although he is orange, has bad hair, and tweets too much, Trump is not evil incarnate.

Just as the Catholic Church isn’t categorically opposed to the Death Penalty, just that it believes it isn’t needed. 

The same as having a border isn’t and regulating immigration isn’t morally wrong.  

Banning torches is a silly overreaction, just as getting all worked up about it is silly.   Chuckle at it and point out that it’s unreasonable to take offense, else you demonstrate that the expected reaction to every little thing is Def-Con 90+++

You’ve got real issues if everyone is having an issue, or assuming there is an issue or conspiracy, or serious social erosion with every silly fault, rudeness, coarseness, misguided effort, mistake, slight error, etc.

I used to believe like this...but now I see it can be really damaging... 

Like I said, I'm alarmed by what I witness.  It's bizarre behavior not by one or two people, but by thousands on a pretty big and popular campus.  Call me a conspiracy theorists, but something is definitely amiss...

[Anomaly]

11 minutes ago, dominicansoul said:

I used to believe like this...but now I see it can be really damaging... 

Like I said, I'm alarmed by what I witness.  It's bizarre behavior not by one or two people, but by thousands on a pretty big and popular campus.  Call me a conspiracy theorists, but something is definitely amiss...

It’s not amiss, it’s  “MAADE”.

MUTUALLY

ASSURED

ARTIFICIAL

DRAMA

ESCALATION.   

[dominicansoul]

Well, you can believe that if you wish, I am only here to stand as a witness to what is going on around me.  

If you want others to control what you think and say, keep ignoring the signs.  Evil prevails when the good do absolutely nothing about it.  We see this with abortion.  A high percentage of  Catholics believe abortion is wrong, but only a small percentage think it should be abolished for good.  The left has done it's job making us rethink even abortion.  You see, the left has totally changed our definitions and phrases and words to their own benefit.  Marriage has been redefined, gender has been redefined, abortion has been redefined, much of our history has been revised, symbols become anathema, and most of it is accepted as small beans, no big deal.  

I heard from a friend California passed a law making it illegal to address Transgenders living in assisted care/elder homes by the wrong pronouns.  The law states you will be fined $1,000 and if you continue to do it, you will get jail time.   I read the bill online.  They made it sound pretty enough to pass it (but it's California, even if they were blunt about it it would have passed.)

I live in TEXAS of all places and see this kind of thing possible, most especially on these liberal university campuses.  But I speak out in my own way, and I get my students rethinking this stuff.  I don't know if that's good enough, but at least I try to do something about it...

Edited October 12, 2017 by dominicansoul

[Era Might]

8 hours ago, dominicansoul said:

When I read Divini Redemptoris, I am struck by how liberalism, which I believe to have branched off from communism, is sooo closely related to the systematic mind control over the masses employed by the communist at the time it was written. 

I'm reading an interesting book right now, subtitled "Class, Consciousness and Salvation in Revolutionary Russia." Communism was remarkably similar to Christianity, it was an eschatological worldview that had a definite salvific event (the coming of Christ, the Russian revolution) and then a "not yet" period where true believers had to deal with the reality of believing that the significant event had taken place, but salvation was still in process.

Liberalism was and is the total opposite. Liberalism saw society as a place of contending "interests" that balance themselves out. This is more or less what we call in America "conservatism."

Part of the reason why Russia was radicalized was because Christianity refused to engage the world. Even social democracy was considered a danger to Christianity by the Orthodox church. In the West there was a similar dynamic, but the Reformation changed everything, because the Reformation created a new Christian dynamic where Christians were no longer passive spectators of history, but were called on to actually bring about a Christian order through social action. 

Every society engages in mind control. America is no less totalitarian than Communist Russia, except that America's mind controllers are business interests rather than political interests. Or, there's a marriage between the two, as we see in the nationalistic ritual of the NFL where sports have become an altar on which we offer sacrifices to dead veterans and a flag.

Mind control has nothing to do with liberalism or conservatism. When you create a system, any system, it will lead to systematic control...whether it is concentrated in the state or not. America has a vast system that most people have no idea of. The Democratic and Republican parties are two big ones, though not the only ones.

[Seven77]

8 hours ago, dominicansoul said:

I don't understand why people keep bringing up political parties?  I'm speaking ideologies. 

 

That's just it: ideologies. Ideology is the problem. Conservatism and liberalism as they are today, are ideologies. They are polarized opposites, they are radical, and unbalanced. Ideology is not compatible with faith.

 

8 hours ago, dominicansoul said:

When I readDivini .Redemptoris..

1

 As long as we are quoting  the encyclical:

46. Still more important as a remedy for the evil we are considering, or certainly more directly calculated to cure it, is the precept of charity. We have in mind that Christian charity, "patient and kind,"[32] which avoids all semblance of demeaning paternalism, and all ostentation; that charity which from the very beginning of Christianity won to Christ the poorest of the poor, the slaves. And We are grateful to all those members of charitable associations, from the conferences of St. Vincent de Paul to the recent great relief organizations, which are perseveringly practicing the spiritual and corporal works of mercy. The more the working men and the poor realize what the spirit of love animated by the virtue of Christ is doing for them, the more readily will they abandon the false persuasion that Christianity has lost its efficacy and that the Church stands on the side of the exploiters of their labor. 47. But when on the one hand We see thousands of the needy, victims of real misery for various reasons beyond their control, and on the other so many round about them who spend huge sums of money on useless things and frivolous amusement, We cannot fail to remark with sorrow not only that justice is poorly observed, but that the precept of charity also is not sufficiently appreciated, is not a vital thing in daily life. We desire therefore, Venerable Brethren, that this divine precept, this precious mark of identification left by Christ to His true disciples, be ever more fully explained by pen and word of mouth; this precept which teaches us to see in those who suffer Christ Himself, and would have us love our brothers as Our Divine Savior has loved us, that is, even at the sacrifice of ourselves, and, if need be, of our very life. Let all then frequently meditate on those words of the final sentence, so consoling yet so terrifying, which the Supreme Judge will pronounce on the day of the Last Judgment: "Come, ye blessed of my Father . . . for I was hungry and you gave me to eat; I was thirsty and you gave me to drink . . . Amen, I say to you, as long as you did it to one of these my least brethren you did it to me."[33] And the reverse: "Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire . . . for I was hungry and you gave me not to eat; I was thirsty and you gave me not to drink . . . Amen, I say to you, as long as you did it not to one of these least. neither did you do it to me."[34]

So, the cure… It's charity. Charity wins people over. Do you want to win people for Christ, and not for ideology? Start with charity… Charity is truth in action. Talk is often not at all beautiful. charity is always beautiful. And the power of charity can be communicated Through beauty.  And that brings to mind the media… Good, beautiful, true works of art and film and music exist… If not whole works, then slivers. Pope Pius XII focuses on the problem as he sees it, but he also doesn't just leave it there. The best strategy is charity.  Charity and beauty… The best ways to win the culture over. That's why Dostoyevsky writes that Beauty will save the world.

[Seven77]

20 minutes ago, Era Might said:

I'm reading an interesting book right now, subtitled "Class, Consciousness and Salvation in Revolutionary Russia." Communism was remarkably similar to Christianity, it was an eschatological worldview that had a definite salvific event (the coming of Christ, the Russian revolution) and then a "not yet" period where true believers had to deal with the reality of believing that the significant event had taken place, but salvation was still in process.

Liberalism was and is the total opposite. Liberalism saw society as a place of contending "interests" that balance themselves out. This is more or less what we call in America "conservatism."

Part of the reason why Russia was radicalized was because Christianity refused to engage the world. Even social democracy was considered a danger to Christianity by the Orthodox church. In the West there was a similar dynamic, but the Reformation changed everything, because the Reformation created a new Christian dynamic where Christians were no longer passive spectators of history, but were called on to actually bring about a Christian order through social action. 

Every society engages in mind control. America is no less totalitarian than Communist Russia, except that America's mind controllers are business interests rather than political interests. Or, there's a marriage between the two, as we see in the nationalistic ritual of the NFL where sports have become an altar on which we offer sacrifices to dead veterans and a flag.

Mind control has nothing to do with liberalism or conservatism. When you create a system, any system, it will lead to systematic control...whether it is concentrated in the state or not. America has a vast system that most people have no idea of. The Democratic and Republican parties are two big ones, though not the only ones.

5

5

It existed before the Reformation. The Christian dynamic of changing the whole social order has always been there. Look at the early church and how Rome was turned upside down from the inside out. It was through the witness of Christians who were very much not passive spectators of history.

But, yeah… We can only bring about Christian order through charitable action. Solidarity. We are all in it together. The early Christians knew that it was not us versus them. It's about bringing redemption, the redemption that Christ won on the cross into the world by our witness and actions.We all need Jesus and the Church.

And, mind control…  ideology.  Pope Francis has denounced ideology in some of the things he said. ideology is dangerous… It doesn't build up. It robs you. 

Nationalism is an ideology… It is state worship. I think it began as patriotism but it's become devolved into nationalism, with its flag and parchment idolatry. 

Our Lady of Fatima pray for us. 

Edited October 12, 2017 by Seven77

[KnightofChrist]

3 hours ago, havok579257 said:

The vast majority of people on here acnologe the problems with the left and call them out all the time.  How many people on here blast the left for abortion,  the transgender bathroom fiasco and the left's abandonment of God.

 

What a lot of us take issue with is this assumption that conservatives are completely right on everything they do.  That theis point of view is 100% right.  That if they do something wrong conservatives try to justify or downplay their wrong doings. 

 

Conservativism  is not completely right. Liberalism is not completely right.  Catholicism is completely right. Conservativism and catholicism are not the same thing.

 

Paragraphs one and two have not been my observation. I just see the same cards played each time someone tries to discuss problems coming from the left. The it's no big deal/you're completely over reacting card. The yeah that's bad but conservatives are equally bad card. Or the we're all upset about this too but let's not talk about it much unlike when conservatives do something stupid card. 

I can agree with the third paragraph, from a certain point of view. The Church is right but it is Conservativism in it's true or pure sense. She conserves the truth, without change (liberalism) through out time.

[havok579257]

2 hours ago, KnightofChrist said:

Paragraphs one and two have not been my observation. I just see the same cards played each time someone tries to discuss problems coming from the left. The it's no big deal/you're completely over reacting card. The yeah that's bad but conservatives are equally bad card. Or the we're all upset about this too but let's not talk about it much unlike when conservatives do something stupid card. 

I can agree with the third paragraph, from a certain point of view. The Church is right but it is Conservativism in it's true or pure sense. She conserves the truth, without change (liberalism) through out time.

american conservativism ideology is not the same as catholic church ideology.  

[KnightofChrist]

2 hours ago, havok579257 said:

american conservativism ideology is not the same as catholic church ideology.  

I didn't say the two were the same. I said the Church is conservativism in it's true a pure sense and that liberalism has no place within her. 

[Seven77]

On 10/12/2017 at 7:12 PM, KnightofChrist said:

The Church is right but it is Conservativism in it's true or pure sense. She conserves the truth, without change (liberalism) through out time.

1

More like The Church preserves the truth… And dispenses it through love. Perfect balance.

[KnightofChrist]

2 hours ago, Seven77 said:

More like The Church preserves the truth… And dispenses it through love. Perfect balance.

Fun Latin pro tip: preserve in Latin can be servo or conservo, but conservo is stronger. Preservation is Conservativism.

But anyway. The two words pretty much are the same. 

[Seven77]

2 minutes ago, KnightofChrist said:

Fun Latin pro tip: preserve in Latin can be servo or conservo, but conservo is stronger. Preservation is Conservativism.

But anyway. The two words pretty much are the same. 

That may be, but don't forget the Church dispenses or sows liberally (munificence).