NFL and the National Anthem

[dominicansoul]

liberalism is the philosophy that people are  inadequate for their own welfare.  People need a state-run nanny.  And liberals want to be that nanny.  Liberals vy for positions of power not because they care for the masses, they want to control the masses.  Their vision of a liberal utopia is one where they control everyones money, everyone's healthcare, everyone's beliefs, decisions, families, responsibilities because only those in authority know what's best for you.  Hussein said as much himself.  And they want to gain this power through manipulative means.  (How many have heard and read how our country needs to dispose of the electoral college?  How often have we been forced to accept immoral laws?  Liberals see religion as a threat to their control.  So they force immorality and make us all a party to it in some way or another.) 

What we are seeing (most especially since this election) are alinsky's "rules for radicals" in place.  Create a false crisis to control peoples emotions.  Honestly, is there really a crisis of black people getting murdered by renegade cops?  Seems to be manufactured by the liberal media, because statistics prove otherwise.  In fact statistics show astronomical numbers of blacks killing blacks.  Now that's the real crisis.  

I'm not trying to make light of the real situations where police brutality took place.  But this protest reminds me of "the office" when Michael decides to run a marathon for "rabies awareness."  Sure it exists but is it really a ginormous problem?  Again statistics show that no, it really isn't.  It would be like us believing the leftists when they say the priesthood is cancer now because it is rifled with pedophilia.  We know it is not. 

With these protests, people are being manipulated by the leftists to do these things:

-have animosity towards America, it's symbol, it's anthem...see all of it as racist

-have a real hatred for the police force...see them all as racists murderers

-no freedom to speak out against these protests because when you do you are immediately chastised as  white supremacist, racists, a hater (which is why that Pittsburg steeler apologized because you know, he "threw his teammates under the bus."  Apparently he had no right to not go along with the protest.  

-and lastly many of you will read this and call me paranoid.  But as I keep emphasizing, I'm surrounded by leftists, I work with them and it's simply...eerie. It's like being stuck in a Leni Riefenstahl documentary.  They think alike, say the same things, expect me to think and feel the same way as they do, but when I do share with them my thoughts and feelings on issues, they all behave like I have a third eye.  

I know the football players can easily get involved with protests at precincts where they believe abuses have been done.  They could make real changes.  Instead, they rather you and I see America and all she stands for as the problem.  I for one will not be fooled...

Edited September 29, 2017 by dominicansoul

[Ice_nine]

4 hours ago, dominicansoul said:

Honestly, is there really a crisis of black people getting murdered by renegade cops?  Seems to be manufactured by the liberal media, because statistics prove otherwise.  In fact statistics show astronomical numbers of blacks killing blacks.  Now that's the real crisis.  

I'm not trying to make light of the real situations where police brutality took place.  But this protest reminds me of "the office" when Michael decides to run a marathon for "rabies awareness."  Sure it exists but is it really a ginormous problem?  Again statistics show that no, it really isn't.

There is a failure of the justice system to protect certain citizens. You know that. Therein lies the central issue. Does it matter about how many black people are killed by cops vis-a-vis how many people are getting killed by other black people? How many black people exactly have to die at the hands of law enforcement to matter to you?

Long before the "liberal media" "manufactured" the race crisis, black people were telling stories of police brutality (mostly through art forms such as poetry and hip-hop). White America wasn't really listening to that, and when they did the emphasis was more on the crimes of the citizens (which America found easier to believe) than the supposed (key word here) of law enforcement. It essentially becomes an issue of trust. We trust in the authority of law enforcement and the justice system, more than the testimony of ordinary black Americans. We say they must be overreacting/too emotional/too ungrateful or whatever. That is essentially what you're saying right? You don't take their word that they are being oppressed and brutalized by various facets of our justice system.

Why don't you believe them?

Is it really about numbers?

Statistics can be tricky. You can often omit things or reframe figures to make your point. I'm sure more black people are killed by other black people than police. I'm not sure that's entirely relevant. I'm sure more white people are killed by non-cops than by cops. Cops represent a much smaller percentage of the population than blacks. So it's no surprise that more blacks are killed by blacks than cops. There are more blacks.

I'm not sure there are any numbers that could convince you. I'm not sure you are open to the idea that there might be a problem. That may seem like a copout. Fine. I've sort of wasted too many days trying to convince people on the internet how wrong they are. But if you can just turn your preconceptions down a bit, if you can consider the possibility that some of what the liberal media is saying, might actually be true, you might be surprised by what you find. Listen to black people. Not just Herman Cain or Ben Carson, or anyone who shares your political views. Listen to the black folk whose love of marxism and Malcolm X make you uncomfortable. The ones who voted for Obama. The ones who live in the gutter. The ones who hate Donald Trump. Just hear them out. Just because they don't share your political affiliations doesn't mean they are lying/crazy/stupid/brainwashed.

I really made an effort to be levelheaded and non-judgmental. It's hard. You seem pretty set in your ways. I don't know you personally, just what I've seen you write. So please don't take this as a personal indictment of your character, I don't know you, and I'm just trying to build a bridge if I can.

[dominicansoul]

I've listened for years.  I went to school and now work with black, white, Hispanic  liberals.  Most of my friends at the university I work for are in fact liberals.  We go out drinking, to the theatre, and we talk.  I don't understand why they seem so focused on being a victim.  They think I need a broader mind, I tell them to relax and enjoy their lives in the greatest country in the world.  They bring up americas racist past, I tell them retribution is us living in a free country and with all the opportunities lying ahead.  I tell them to keep looking forward not backward.  They need to stop listening to professors who rile up all their emotions against our country, the white wealthy man, cops, GOD, etc. 

is it a perfect country? No and it probably never will be.  Are their racial problems?  Yes but let's work at eradicating the problem and not dividing the country even more.

 I myself have had racist hate on me...but that was people from our own church! Lol.  Did I burn my crucifix in protest?  No, I loved my enemies and prayed for them.  It's their loss, not mine.  

I'm a woman.  I'm a minority. And I'm a conservative.  They think that's a freak of nature.  But they've been conditioned to believe no woman or minority should be a conservative...

i guess we are both set in our ways.  But my graduate assistants...at least they are honest and tell me I'm the only conservative they've ever liked.   I tell them "ditto kid."  I love em, that's why I'm concerned with how they are taken advantage of and radicalized.  Most of them tell me if they disagreed with a professor they would be looking at bad grades.  That's just not right!!!

Back in the 90s, i also worked in law enforcement.  All types of criminals I worked with, blacks, Hispanic, whites.  I saw injustice, men who were sentenced 20 plus years for drug charges while DWI offenders would get out in a few months time.  That didn't sit well with me... didn't matter what race, seemed this happened with black and white men.  Most of the people in jail all had one thing in common:  they weren't believers or followers of Christ.  Some were rich, some were poor, but not one guy told me he had ever been big on religion until he landed in jail.  

Edited September 29, 2017 by dominicansoul

[Anomaly]

15 hours ago, Seven77 said:

No, it's about "pride in a flag for country that oppresses black people and people of color." It has nothing to do with dissing the flag. In fact, Colin Kaepernick consulted a friend was in the military before taking his action… The friend told that it would be more respectful to kneel as opposed to sit on the bench during the anthem. He's not trying to disrespect the flag, but he's trying to bring awareness to the problem that he sees and he thinks, mistakenly or not, kneeling during the anthem is the best way to do that – – I should actually use past tense because he's gone from the NFL.

The Freind convinced Kapernick to tone it down AFTER the backlash of outrage at the broad and fundamental  disrespect of him plopping on his but to refuse to stand.   Google articles from the start and see the croutons Kapernick was saying .

Regardless of the multiple motives, it is an inflammatory act to mint, that does more to divide than raise open minded awareness.  

As a teen in the early 70's, I saw there was a big difference between a War Protest with a sit in and people wrapped in flags and a War Protest burning flags and throwing rocks.   

Both protested the war in Nam, but one brought more attention to their own bad actions then to raise questions about the war.   It made it easy to dismiss war protesters who did violence, just as there is backlash against AntiFa that promote violence.  

Christians, and thoughtful people, should see that two wrongs don't make a right.  If you can't see the difference yourself, then you're just being obeying the puppet masters who really want us to be distracted and engaged in the drama of conflict to increase views, ratings, and potential votes, and really aren't interested in resolving a problem that's just a riveting news story. 

Edited September 29, 2017 by Anomaly

[havok579257]

3 hours ago, dominicansoul said:

I've listened for years.  I went to school and now work with black, white, Hispanic  liberals.  Most of my friends at the university I work for are in fact liberals.  We go out drinking, to the theatre, and we talk.  I don't understand why they seem so focused on being a victim.  They think I need a broader mind, I tell them to relax and enjoy their lives in the greatest country in the world.  They bring up americas racist past, I tell them retribution is us living in a free country and with all the opportunities lying ahead.  I tell them to keep looking forward not backward.  They need to stop listening to professors who rile up all their emotions against our country, the white wealthy man, cops, GOD, etc. 

is it a perfect country? No and it probably never will be.  Are their racial problems?  Yes but let's work at eradicating the problem and not dividing the country even more.

 I myself have had racist hate on me...but that was people from our own church! Lol.  Did I burn my crucifix in protest?  No, I loved my enemies and prayed for them.  It's their loss, not mine.  

I'm a woman.  I'm a minority. And I'm a conservative.  They think that's a freak of nature.  But they've been conditioned to believe no woman or minority should be a conservative...

i guess we are both set in our ways.  But my graduate assistants...at least they are honest and tell me I'm the only conservative they've ever liked.   I tell them "ditto kid."  I love em, that's why I'm concerned with how they are taken advantage of and radicalized.  Most of them tell me if they disagreed with a professor they would be looking at bad grades.  That's just not right!!!

Back in the 90s, i also worked in law enforcement.  All types of criminals I worked with, blacks, Hispanic, whites.  I saw injustice, men who were sentenced 20 plus years for drug charges while DWI offenders would get out in a few months time.  That didn't sit well with me... didn't matter what race, seemed this happened with black and white men.  Most of the people in jail all had one thing in common:  they weren't believers or followers of Christ.  Some were rich, some were poor, but not one guy told me he had ever been big on religion until he landed in jail.  

Your comments about stop being victims shows your out of touch.  It's the same people who tell poor people to stop being victims, work hard and they will suceed.  This reality is not probable for lots of inner city poor people.  Not to mention blacks are more predominantly live in the inner city. It's not so easy to get out of their situation without help and that is something lots of conservatives don't want to do. They feel like they made it on their own, so why can't everyone. Well coming from a middle class or upper class area makes it way easier to not be in poverty.  I mean just look at the differences. If you live in the inner city and are black police make the assumption you are a criminal because more crime happens in the inner city. So you rarely get a fair shake from police were as if your a black man who lives in a upper or middle class city,  you could get a fair shake.  Your surrounded by more crime if your black living in the inner city as opposed to those living elsewhere.  Your consistantly worried about getting shot in random drive bys that have nothing to do with you.  Something those who live in even middle class neighborhoods don't worry about.  Political leaders are all for improving middle to upper class cities but not inner cities. As much as I don't agree with the Obamas on nearly everything, Michelle was right about living in the inner city can mean you are deprived of basic fruits and vegetables.  Unless your willing to drive more than others in better cities to get the food.  Should I even go on about trying to get a job in a rich and upper middle class neighborhood when you show up and your black and from the inner city. First impression is your a thug and first impressions rarely can be changed for an interview.  I could go on and on.  The issue is conservatives don't want to admit being black and being from an inner city puts you at a disadvantage compared to rhem white guy or Asian guy or so on who come from middle to upper class areas. Until conservatives stop downplaying this disparity nothing will change. 

Inner city blacks can rise above their situations but they have to work that much harder compared to a white guy from a rich or middle class area.

 

Also since you said you worked with law enforcement I would imagine you have seen lots of racism towards blacks if you worked in an inner city.  I have worked for over 10 years as a paramedic in an inner city and have seen significant racism from police.  Not half, not all.  Although more than enough so any to not be insignificant.  Something people don't realize unless they work with the police for years.

 

You may have listened to others in the past but it's evident you don't anymore. You already have stereotypes of people in your mind and it's obvious you stick to those. You've already made your mind up about people and now don't listen to them and just dismiss them as wrong. I would suggest you need to listen to others with dissenting views. Not just physically listen with your ears and dismiss but actually listen and try to understand where they are coming from. Put yourself in their shoes.  

[PhuturePriest]

(Pay no attention to my avatar during the following statement.)

I honestly don't see why kneeling is offensive, and it doesn't bother me whatsoever. If people want to bring attention to an issue by making a non-violent, small and unnoticeable gesture, I don't see why we should all light up torches over it. The flag stands for our right to peaceful protest, so for the president and many others to say they should be fired and shamed in the public forum is asinine. They're not burning the flag, they're not stomping on it, they're not spitting on it -- they're simply making a small gesture to bring attention to an issue they find really important. Even if, for the sake of argument, someone were doing it because they loathed the US with the very essence of their being, I still wouldn't care. I'm watching to see the game, not judge and shame others for having differing views.

Personally, I don't put my hand over my heart during the anthem or the pledge of allegiance. I conscientiously do this due to personal issues with the gesture. Should I be shamed and fired like those who kneel for doing this?

[dominicansoul]

14 minutes ago, havok579257 said:

You may have listened to others in the past but it's evident you don't anymore. You already have stereotypes of people in your mind and it's obvious you stick to those. You've already made your mind up about people and now don't listen to them and just dismiss them as wrong. I would suggest you need to listen to others with dissenting views. Not just physically listen with your ears and dismiss but actually listen and try to understand where they are coming from. Put yourself in their shoes.  

What part of "I work with liberals, have friends who are liberals, we go out and discuss issues" do you not understand?  lol.  

I AM a minority.  I know how tough things are.  But I've never accepted the liberal brainwashing that there's something "off" by me being a person of color and that I'm too inadequate on my own and need the state to help me reach my goals.  I've never accepted victimhood.  I absolutely LOVE this country, it's founders, the beautiful flag and this country's anthem.  Were our founders perfect?  No.  But they had an idea for a country where ultimately all men will be looked upon as equal, with the opportunities for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.  Now, we can either help make this dream a reality, or keep going backwards and dividing the country. 

 

2 minutes ago, PhuturePriest said:

(Pay no attention to my avatar during the following statement.)

I honestly don't see why kneeling is offensive, and it doesn't bother me whatsoever. If people want to bring attention to an issue by making a non-violent, small and unnoticeable gesture, I don't see why we should all light up torches over it. The flag stands for our right to peaceful protest, so for the president and many others to say they should be fired and shamed in the public forum is asinine. They're not burning the flag, they're not stomping on it, they're not spitting on it -- they're simply making a small gesture to bring attention to an issue they find really important. Even if, for the sake of argument, someone were doing it because they loathed the US with the very essence of their being, I still wouldn't care. I'm watching to see the game, not judge and shame others for having differing views.

Personally, I don't put my hand over my heart during the anthem or the pledge of allegiance. I conscientiously do this due to personal issues with the gesture. Should I be shamed and fired like those who kneel for doing this?

you need to be burned at the stake... 

 

 

Edited September 29, 2017 by dominicansoul

[dominicansoul]

33 minutes ago, PhuturePriest said:

I honestly don't see why kneeling is offensive, and it doesn't bother me whatsoever.

I definitely support people who make the controversial decision to kneel... while receiving Communion.

- Fr. David Abernethy

 

 

[Anomaly]

52 minutes ago, PhuturePriest said:

(Pay no attention to my avatar during the following statement.)

I honestly don't see why kneeling is offensive, and it doesn't bother me whatsoever. If people want to bring attention to an issue by making a non-violent, small and unnoticeable gesture, I don't see why we should all light up torches over it. The flag stands for our right to peaceful protest, so for the president and many others to say they should be fired and shamed in the public forum is asinine. They're not burning the flag, they're not stomping on it, they're not spitting on it -- they're simply making a small gesture to bring attention to an issue they find really important. Even if, for the sake of argument, someone were doing it because they loathed the US with the very essence of their being, I still wouldn't care. I'm watching to see the game, not judge and shame others for having differing views.

Personally, I don't put my hand over my heart during the anthem or the pledge of allegiance. I conscientiously do this due to personal issues with the gesture. Should I be shamed and fired like those who kneel for doing this?

That is your personal choice and belief about the meaning of the action.  I really don't believe that you actually really believe that refusal to stand may be offensive.  The vast majority of military and a significant majority of people disagree and see it denigrating of a uniting symbol. 

Is not there some room to disagree and acknowledge that the act can be construed as denigrating and disrespectful of a symbol of unity to some?  In fact, what the Flag represents practically obligates us to address injustices, including with protests.  

I don't think it's unreasonable to allow that sitting or kneeling during the anthem is highly offensive to many.  Add in that initially it was performed by a person with mixed intent and dubious methodology. 

Wouldn't a reasonable compromise be to take a knee AFTER the Anthem?  But no, the disagreement morphed beyond that and look at the inane arguments in this thread.   Instead of discussing police accountability and instances like Laquan MacDonald in Chicago, it's about Kapernick, Trump, and political parties while news sellers gleefully rub their hands over viewer ratings and advertising revenues. 

Edited September 29, 2017 by Anomaly

[Seven77]

 I'm going to try something for a second… I understand that not standing during the National Anthem can seem disrespectful.  And as St. Paul says, we should not give our brother a reason to be scandalized.  In that token, not standing should definitely have been an action to be avoided.  However,  what was in the heart and mind of the person that initially carried it out? Was he aware of that, did he understand that Scripture verse? I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt to that person… Perhaps he thought, mistakenly or not, that kneeling during the National Anthem could somehow raise awareness to the problems he wanted to raise awareness about. Purposely trying to show disrespect to the flag? I really don't think so. It was an act of desperation. And he lost his job for it. But I'm willing to bet that he doesn't regret the action for one moment because in his mind it was for a worthy cause.

 Sidenote: Technically, kneeling can be a valid form of respect for the flag just as much as standing to salute it. These are changeable customs were talking about here not intrinsically moral actions. 

[hotpink]

1) I have a huge issue with the NFL.  It dosn't care about players.  It has constantly and systematically repressed data to show that it's recuriting practices are sketchy, it's players are something like 20x more likely than the general popualation to be involved in a domestic abuse charge, it regularly creates loopholes so players can bypass financial protections--and most important it has continued to encourage play in a way that creates concussions, and supported those plays down to the pee-wee level.

 

2) I have no issue with the bended knee.  That's fine.  I have a huge issue with the sitting.  I have an enormous issue with the Lilly-livered pansies who hide in the locker room during the anthem.  I think allowing them to play is beyond pale.

[havok579257]

2 hours ago, dominicansoul said:

What part of "I work with liberals, have friends who are liberals, we go out and discuss issues" do you not understand?  lol.  

I AM a minority.  I know how tough things are.  But I've never accepted the liberal brainwashing that there's something "off" by me being a person of color and that I'm too inadequate on my own and need the state to help me reach my goals.  I've never accepted victimhood.  I absolutely LOVE this country, it's founders, the beautiful flag and this country's anthem.  Were our founders perfect?  No.  But they had an idea for a country where ultimately all men will be looked upon as equal, with the opportunities for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.  Now, we can either help make this dream a reality, or keep going backwards and dividing the country. 

 

you need to be burned at the stake... 

 

 

Having friends and Co workers and listening with your ears is not the same as hearing someone. 

You've made up your mind liberalism is a disease. How exactly can you hear someone when you think every aspect of their liberalism. Is wrong, your right and their way of thinking is a disease.   You don't really hear anyone when you think their philosophy is a disease and there is no redeeming quality to their train of thought.

 

[Anomaly]

38 minutes ago, Seven77 said:

 I'm going to try something for a second… I understand that not standing during the National Anthem can seem disrespectful.  And as St. Paul says, we should not give our brother a reason to be scandalized.  In that token, not standing should definitely have been an action to be avoided.  However,  what was in the heart and mind of the person that initially carried it out? Was he aware of that, did he understand that Scripture verse? I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt to that person… Perhaps he thought, mistakenly or not, that kneeling during the National Anthem could somehow raise awareness to the problems he wanted to raise awareness about. Purposely trying to show disrespect to the flag? I really don't think so. It was an act of desperation. And he lost his job for it. But I'm willing to bet that he doesn't regret the action for one moment because in his mind it was for a worthy cause.

 Sidenote: Technically, kneeling can be a valid form of respect for the flag just as much as standing to salute it. These are changeable customs were talking about here not intrinsically moral actions. 

Technically, you are right.   In reality, the majority or a significant percentage of Americans view it as an intentional refusal to stand and in the context, is disrespectful. 

As far as what was in the heart of the originator of the act of protest, Kapernick, you only have to google and see some of his words and actions (including wearing Fidel shirt to press conference and police-pig socks to practice, at statements to the press).

I think some NFL players and citizens are right to bring attention to police accountability and race, but unfortunately, the kneeling during the anthem drags in Kapernick's baggage and is alienating towards many, if not most.   Refusal to acknowledge that reality is petulant, arrogant, counterproductive, or worse.   

Edited September 29, 2017 by Anomaly

[dominicansoul]

5 minutes ago, havok579257 said:

Having friends and Co workers and listening with your ears is not the same as hearing someone. 

You've made up your mind liberalism is a disease. How exactly can you hear someone when you think every aspect of their liberalism. Is wrong, your right and their way of thinking is a disease.   You don't really hear anyone when you think their philosophy is a disease and there is no redeeming quality to their train of thought.

 

And you've made up your mind I'm a stubborn close minded conservative.  How does that make you any different? 

[Anomaly]

4 minutes ago, dominicansoul said:

And you've made up your mind I'm a stubborn close minded conservative.  How does that make you any different? 

I'm not Catholic, but I do like this   You can switch liberal or conservative, Christian or atheist, and for some, Catholic or apostate   

Edited September 29, 2017 by Anomaly