NFL and the National Anthem

[Seven77]

11 minutes ago, little2add said:

anarchy is not the solution

1

you're a funny guy

[Era Might]

49 minutes ago, little2add said:

I stand with law and order, the cops are not the bad guys, neither is trump. everybody has the right to speak there mind whether it is popular (politicly correct) or not, even the president.

 

anarchy is not the solution

Trump came to power promising to "drain the swamp" and make himself sole crocodile. Funny how the only swamp he wants to drain is in DC...everywhere else is a paradise, apparently...police, military, business...no problems, just salute the flag and know your place.

[Ice_nine]

In order to bring attention to something you have to have some amount of disruption, irreverence. Some tearing down because some parts need to be rebuilt. Maybe even some foundational elements. That is a frightening proposition, but if a protest doesn't offend anybody, how is it really a protest?

It's likely we will not agree. Kneeling is a nonviolent act. Yes it is on some level disrespectful, because it is essentially saying "hey this flag that represents freedom, sacrifice, unity, patriotism, well that flag isn't so great because it's not really doing **** for us."

For some coming to grips with America's racist foundations (and how those racist systems remain intact) is like finding out the dad you idolized your whole life actually cheated on your mom and fathered another family somewhere. It's not something people want to really face or grapple with. I was not born during the Transatlantic slave trade, I cannot be held responsible for that. Yet, I benefit from its effects as I white person. I do. And it's not my fault, and it's uncomfortable, but it's truth. That seems to be hard for a lot of white Americans to swallow.

And some say that the flag represents the ideals, not necessarily the reality, of America. Therefore, "disrespecting" the flag is disrespecting these ideals. And therefore you must not really love God, or love freedom.

I'm torn over it you know. I feel a lot of my fellow white folks don't really realize the impact of racism or the struggles of Black Americans in general. I also have a general distaste for nationalism. Yet I love God, or try to. I guess I relate to the so-called Marxists when they want to tear things down because everything seems so foundationally mucked up. I guess I disagree with what to replace it with. Christ said everything in this world will pass away. "Behold I make all things new."

At the same time there are things that are worth preserving. But I think we really need to be honest about what those things are. And I think we need to have a little more compassion in general for those who are marginalized and think less about how that affects our pride and our level of discomfort.

Guess what? The answers aren't easy.

[little2add]

2 hours ago, havok579257 said:

are all cops the good guys?

 

yes, everyone 

[dominicansoul]

6 hours ago, Anomaly said:

The NFL owners can face criticism like everyone else.  Donald can voice his opinions as well.  Donald did not say to put them in jail because he is President.  

At the he beginning and end of the day, due to taxpayers subsidies, the Stadium is not solely a privately owned venue like a 7-11.  The fact that taxpayers subsidized most stadiums put a burden on the NFL owners to consider all the public contributors.  That pretty much translates to holding a neutral position and not letting a public funded venue be used against the wishes of a significant group of contributors. It isn't just a private property and private business anymore.  There are rules and restrictions about what it can be used for and voters have a say in demanding enforcement of the rules or reviewing the lease agreements.  As been pointed out, reasonable people can be uncomfortable with acts of disrespect and share landlord rights.  Sorry, but just because we contribute taxes, we do have a say in how it is run as long as it doesn't materially hinder the business operations.   

If Cerner wanted to develop a pro South Civil War park again st wishes of many voters and taxpayers, the county can make demands and threaten review of the terms of subsidies   

The NFL can allow or disallow behavior and protests outside of the publicly owned venue as permitted or restricted in our laws.   Nothing wrong with that

 

The NFL GETS $7 billion tax dollars from tax payers for stadium building and repairs.  

...that's like...a lot....

[havok579257]

18 minutes ago, dominicansoul said:

The NFL GETS $7 billion tax dollars from tax payers for stadium building and repairs.  

...that's like...a lot....

the NFL as a whole gets that but each team is an independent company.  Not all teams get tax money.  The Carolina Panthers did not use tax payer money to build their stadium years ago.  

 

Also tax payers agree to give their tax money to these teams.  Usually there is a vote by the public and they agree to give them money for fear of losing an NFL team to another state and losing all of that revenue through jobs, player taxes and opposing player taxes who come in and play one game in their state.

 

Its no different than any other private company who gets money to go or stay in a state.  Happens all the time in Kansas and Missouri.  They both fight over business's and give tax payer money to these companies to lure them to their states so they can increase their revenue. 

[dominicansoul]

12 hours ago, havok579257 said:

Also tax payers agree to give their tax money to these teams.  Usually there is a vote by the public and they agree to give them money for fear of losing an NFL team to another state and losing all of that revenue through jobs, player taxes and opposing player taxes who come in and play one game in their state. 

Not all taxpayers agree.  In fact, there are usually debates and heated ones at that when cities go ahead and give the team what it wants despite what was actually voted on!  

It was like this back when San Antonio had raised taxes to build the Alamadome so the Spurs could play in a better facility than the old Coliseum.  Everyone voted to allow higher taxes to pay for that thing.  Less than 5 years later, the city was raising taxes again to pay for the AT&T Center cos the Spurs wanted their very own facility to play in.  There was not even a vote!  Lots of begrudging fans, but nevertheless, Spurs have a very loyal fan base and are greatly loved by the city.  If the Spurs start hating on the American flag, though, I guarantee they will see empty bleachers.  San Antonio is known as "military city, USA."  

Not to mention, Pop has come out as a leftist...and the city is definitely filled with leftists...so who knows, maybe they'll be the only ones at the games...

Edited September 28, 2017 by dominicansoul

[Seven77]

6 hours ago, dominicansoul said:

Pop has come out as a leftist...and the city is definitely filled with leftists...so who knows, maybe they'll be the only ones at the games...

 

Just curious… What is that exactly?

[little2add]

WRITTEN BY RETIRED MARINE COL JEFFREY POWERS AND SENT TO NFL COMMISSIONER ROGER GOODELL

 

Commissioner,

I've been a season pass holder at Yankee Stadium, Yale Bowl and Giants Stadium.

I missed the '90-'91 season because I was with a battalion of Marines in Desert Storm.  14 of my wonderful Marines returned home with the American Flag draped across their lifeless bodies.  My last conversation with one of them, Sgt Garrett Mongrella, was about how our Giants were going to the Super Bowl.  He never got to see it. 

Many friends, Marines, and Special Forces Soldiers who worked with or for me through the years returned home with the American Flag draped over their coffins.

Now I watch multi-millionaire athletes who never did anything in their lives but play a game, disrespect what brave Americans fought and died for.  They are essentially spitting in the faces and on the graves of real men, men who have actually done something for this country beside playing with a ball and believing they're something special!  They're not!  My Marines and Soldiers were!

You are complicit in this!

You'll fine players for large and small infractions but you lack the morale courage and respect for our nation and the fallen to put an immediate stop to this.

Yes, I know, it's their 1st Amendment right to behave in such a despicable manner.  What would happen if they came out and disrespected you or the refs publicly?

I observed a player getting a personal foul for twerking in the end zone after scoring.  I guess that's much worse than disrespecting the flag and our National Anthem.  Hmmmmm, isn't it his 1st Amendment right to express himself like an idiot in the end zone?  Why is taunting not allied yet taunting America is ok?  You fine players for wearing 9-11 commemorative shoes yet you allow scum on the sidelines to sit, kneel or pump their pathetic fist in the air.  They are so deprived with their multimillion    

dollar contracts for playing a freaking game!  You condone it all by your refusal to act.

You're just as bad and disgusting as they are. I hope Americans boycott any sponsor who supports that rabble you call the NFL.  I hope they turn off the TV  when any team that allowed this disrespect to occur, without consequence, on the sidelines.  I applaud those who have not.

Legends and heroes do NOT wear shoulder pads.  They wear body armor and carry rifles. 

They make minimum wage and spend months and years away from their families.  They don't do it for an hour on Sunday.  They do 24/7 often with lead, not footballs, coming in their direction.  They watch their brothers carted off in pieces not on a gurney to get their knee iced. They don't even have ice!  Many don't have legs or arms.  Some wear blue and risk their lives daily on the streets of America.  They wear fire helmets and go upstairs into the fire rather than down to safety. On 9/11 hundreds vanished.  They are the heroes. 

I hope that your high paid protesting pretty boys and you look in that mirror when you shave tomorrow and see what you really are, legends in your own minds.  You need to hit the road and take those worms with you! 

Time to change the channel.

Col Jeffrey A Powers USMC(ret)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

         if Col. Powers is an actual person. And he sure is the real deal. He has an amazing military and educational background. He really knows what he's talking about. his letter was so powerful and reminded me why we stand during the National Anthem. It's showing respect to those who have fought for our country-military, policemen, fireman, etc. I think these football players are idiots. Why don't they use their money to fight racial inequality in a productive way? I, for one, will be boycotting the games.

I'm taking a stand. 

 

[dominicansoul]

17 minutes ago, Seven77 said:

Just curious… What is that exactly?

a liberal, a communist

[dominicansoul]

On 9/27/2017 at 11:51 AM, havok579257 said:

Well considering these players and not protesting the flag or the anthem I don't see what your point is.  Have you actually read what these have said and why they are protesting or are u just listening to the media's reasons why these players are protesting.  You obviously have not been following this other than what the media talks about it.  Cause if you have actually been paying attention you would have read from the protesters themselves that this is not about protesting the flag or the anthem . 

 "I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color"---Colin Kaepernick.   

 

Kaepernick sure thinks it's about the flag, the anthem and the country...

[Seven77]

6 minutes ago, dominicansoul said:

"I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color"---Colin Kaepernick.   

 

Kaepernick sure thinks it's about the flag, the anthem and the country...

1

No, it's about "pride in a flag for country that oppresses black people and people of color." It has nothing to do with dissing the flag. In fact, Colin Kaepernick consulted a friend was in the military before taking his action… The friend told that it would be more respectful to kneel as opposed to sit on the bench during the anthem. He's not trying to disrespect the flag, but he's trying to bring awareness to the problem that he sees and he thinks, mistakenly or not, kneeling during the anthem is the best way to do that – – I should actually use past tense because he's gone from the NFL.

[havok579257]

7 hours ago, dominicansoul said:

Not all taxpayers agree.  In fact, there are usually debates and heated ones at that when cities go ahead and give the team what it wants despite what was actually voted on!  

It was like this back when San Antonio had raised taxes to build the Alamadome so the Spurs could play in a better facility than the old Coliseum.  Everyone voted to allow higher taxes to pay for that thing.  Less than 5 years later, the city was raising taxes again to pay for the AT&T Center cos the Spurs wanted their very own facility to play in.  There was not even a vote!  Lots of begrudging fans, but nevertheless, Spurs have a very loyal fan base and are greatly loved by the city.  If the Spurs start hating on the American flag, though, I guarantee they will see empty bleachers.  San Antonio is known as "military city, USA."  

Not to mention, Pop has come out as a leftist...and the city is definitely filled with leftists...so who knows, maybe they'll be the only ones at the games...

when has america ever not passed a law because not all taxpayers agree?  the majority voted on the tax, that's the way it has always been.  

 

if an elected  official made the decision, then that's the voters fault for voting that official into office.  this is a republic after all.

 

we get your train of thought.  conservationism is completely right, liberalism is completely wrong. being a called a leftist is meant as an insult.  although for some reason the church has not come out and said conservatives are completely right and liberals are completely wrong.  any idea when that will happen?  

[dominicansoul]

Quote

when has america ever not passed a law because not all taxpayers agree?  the majority voted on the tax, that's the way it has always been.  

 

if an elected  official made the decision, then that's the voters fault for voting that official into office.  this is a republic after all.

 

we get your train of thought.  conservationism is completely right, liberalism is completely wrong. being a called a leftist is meant as an insult.  although for some reason the church has not come out and said conservatives are completely right and liberals are completely wrong.  any idea when that will happen?  

In the cases I spoke about, the city kept calling for elections until they received the votes they were looking for.  It was pretty much a joke.  Taxpayers pay for these stupid stadiums and games.  Probably pay for the scholarships most of these guys go to school on, too.  

The church has condemned communism, Marxism, socialism which liberalism is a child of.  

1 hour ago, Seven77 said:

No, it's about "pride in a flag for country that oppresses black people and people of color." It has nothing to do with dissing the flag. In fact, Colin Kaepernick consulted a friend was in the military before taking his action… The friend told that it would be more respectful to kneel as opposed to sit on the bench during the anthem. He's not trying to disrespect the flag, but he's trying to bring awareness to the problem that he sees and he thinks, mistakenly or not, kneeling during the anthem is the best way to do that – – I should actually use past tense because he's gone from the NFL.

 His entire statement is dissing America, calling the entire country racist.

Like I said and will keep saying, their protest makes no sense.  It's just an exercise in anti American sentiment.  These guys have the opportunity to really do something about the problems they see in the police force but instead show hatred for the country.  

Edited September 28, 2017 by dominicansoul

[Seven77]

 

 

What do you mean as liberalism? How do you define it so we can be precise in understanding terms and avoid getting them mixed up. This is important. For example, one can be economically liberal and socially conservative but not the other way around. I hope you know what you're talking about when you, DS, speak of "liberalism."

8 minutes ago, dominicansoul said:

In the cases I spoke about, the city kept calling for elections until they received the votes they were looking for.  It was pretty much a joke.  Taxpayers pay for these stupid stadiums and games.  Probably pay for the scholarships most of these guys go to school on, too.  

The church has condemned communism, Marxism, socialism which liberalism is a child of.  

 His entire statement is dissing America, calling the entire country racist.

Like I said and will keep saying, their protest makes no sense.  It's just an exercise in anti American sentiment.  These guys have the opportunity to really do something about the problems they see in the police force but instead show hatred for the country.  

He is trying to do some thing about the problem...  kneeling during the anthem is not in his mind an act of hatred for the country. He wants to make America great by bringing attention to a problem that's keeping America from being great.

PeopleSay that they don't want to confront political issues while watching sports… Perhaps this itself is part of the problem. The culture of sports keeps people in denial about things going on in the world. And, the audience that the kneelers intended to reach is precisely most of the football watching world…

And there are real acts of disrespect for the country such as wearing the flag on a bathing suit bottom… Now that's disrespectful. Calling the citizens of a country of which you are president, sons of beeotches is disrespectful.