NFL and the National Anthem

[dUSt]

Does anybody have any hot sports opinions (HSO's) on this subject?

[chrysostom]

I get the sentiment - that a wound of injustices is festering in the USA and something has to be done about it - but I have issues with kneeling at the national anthem.

First is the method of making that sentiment known: subverting or destroying ritual to make a point. It reminds me of many other leftist tactics of the past century that have undermined much of what is good and true and advanced cultural Marxism. The medium is the message: the medium, intentional disrespect of the symbols of patriotism, and the message, disrespect of patriotism. One might argue that it simply reflects the present disunity, but I would respond that it does no more than a passing good, and in fact more profound harm, to tear down the icons of unity in the process of making that point.

In addition, the individual who started the trend himself is a Marxist. For me, this sours the entire thing. He supports Fidel Castro and other awful and evil tyrants...and no doubt he feels himself on the side of right. Young communist radicals always did feel that way, but they tore down so much in the pursuit of earthly justice. They will continue to do so. I don't like that one bit, and despite the fact that I recognize real wounds in these times I think it is the wrong way to go.

Yes, I think racism is an issue today. No, I don't think the equivalent of flag-burning will help. 

Finally, this seems to be closely tied to the BLM movement, which I cannot support in any way due to its close association with the extremes of intersectional theory, the hatred of God, family, and sexuality, and by extension, the support of abortion.

http://blacklivesmatter.com/guiding-principles/

TL;DR - I don't want to make too much of it, but it's got all this baggage and it smells off.

As to whether you can or can't do it? It's your right, and it's up to the NFL as to whether they want to do something about it. But it doesn't mean I have to like it!

Edited September 27, 2017 by chrysostom

[havok579257]

Its their first amendment right to kneel.  Its also the opinion of their boss's (NFL Owners) that they are in full support of this.  I honestly don't see any issue with this.  They have already come out and said why they are kneeling.  I also don't understand why conservatives are in a tizzy about this.  Its a first amendment right and they should 100% support it.  They rail on liberals all the time (rightfully so) that they try to supress free speech and yet they blast these players and say they should not exercise their free speech at their jobs.  If the owners support this, which they do, conservatives should have no issue with this.  Although as with nearly everything in this country, if one political side is for something, the other sides just has to be against it.

[Luigi]

Stop watching television. Stop watching football. Stop paying attention to rich and out-of-touch celebrities who think that the public cares what they think. It's the Circus Maximus of the dying Empire. 

[havok579257]

1 minute ago, chrysostom said:

I get the sentiment - that a wound of injustices is festering in the USA and something has to be done about it - but I have two issues with kneeling at the national anthem.

First is the method of making that sentiment known: subverting or destroying ritual to make a point. It reminds me of many other leftist tactics of the past century that have undermined much of what is good and true and advanced cultural Marxism. The medium is the message: the medium, intentional disrespect of the symbols of patriotism, and the message, disrespect of patriotism. One might argue that it simply reflects the present disunity, but I would respond that it does no more than a passing good, and in fact more profound harm, to tear down the icons of unity in the process of making that point.

In addition, the individual who started the trend himself is a Marxist. For me, this sours the entire thing. He supports Fidel Castro and other awful and evil tyrants...and no doubt he feels himself on the side of right. Young communist radicals always did feel that way, but they tore down so much in the pursuit of earthly justice. They will continue to do so. I don't like that one bit, and despite the fact that I recognize real wounds in these times I think it is the wrong way to go.

Yes, I think racism is an issue today. No, I don't think the equivalent of flag-burning will help.

Finally, this seems to be closely tied to the BLM movement, which I cannot support in any way due to its close association with the extremes of intersectional theory, the hatred of God, family, and sexuality, and by extension, the support of abortion.

http://blacklivesmatter.com/guiding-principles/

TL;DR - I don't want to make too much of it, but it's got all this baggage and it smells off.

Kapernick started the movement.  He may not be a righteous man, I honestly have no clue.  Although to condemn something because the founder was for immoral things is to condemn America itself.  Our founders were in support of many immoral things to.  Although their support of immoral things should not take away from the message and idea they were trying to create when they formed this country.  If you want to blast the movement because of its founder in Kapernick then I hope your consistent and blast this country because of its founders and their support for immoral things also.  If not, then you really don't have a leg to stand on.  

 

Not standing up for the national anthem is not akin to flag-burning.  Are we now going to adopt the liberal mindset of saying inflammatory things to try and discredit the other side such as being against illegal immigrant is akin to supporting nazi's in the 1940.  When has not standing for the anthem been akin to flag-burning?  Seriously!  

 

So because to you, this seems to be tied to BLM which seems to be tied to abortion, you can't support it?  That makes no sense at all.  Its purpose of being done was because of police brutality.  Many players have come out and said this.  Which I honestly can't see anyone disagreeing with police brutality being wrong.  

 

Trump, the conservative media and the liberal media are all trying to warp this thing into something its not to rile up their bases.  

Just now, Luigi said:

Stop watching television. Stop watching football. Stop paying attention to rich and out-of-touch celebrities who think that the public cares what they think. It's the Circus Maximus of the dying Empire. 

Sadly the public does care what sports players think.  Most of these athletes are held up as heroes and role models by the american people.  Although I am still confused why people are getting upset about what other people do at their jobs that their bosses support.  

[dominicansoul]

I think it's stupid.  You want to protest against police brutality, take it up with a precinct.  Put your millions to use by adopting a thug and put him in a reform school.   Don't insult ALL Americans to try and win sympathy for your cause.  

1 hour ago, havok579257 said:

Its their first amendment right to kneel.  Its also the opinion of their boss's (NFL Owners) that they are in full support of this.  I honestly don't see any issue with this.  They have already come out and said why they are kneeling.  I also don't understand why conservatives are in a tizzy about this.  Its a first amendment right and they should 100% support it.  They rail on liberals all the time (rightfully so) that they try to supress free speech and yet they blast these players and say they should not exercise their free speech at their jobs.  If the owners support this, which they do, conservatives should have no issue with this.  Although as with nearly everything in this country, if one political side is for something, the other sides just has to be against it.

Maybe it's because conservatives love this country and these idiots are insulting it...

I really don't care why they say they are doing it, it's just an opportunity for the leftists to hate on America.  It's funny how liberals want to bark about "first ammendment rights" when that means hate against our country but then go rioting when conservatives don't want to bake a stupid gay wedding cake.  I can assure you if the NFL was disrespecting that rainbow flag they'd all be fired!!!  

Edited September 27, 2017 by dominicansoul

[Anomaly]

Aa usual, it is too much drama, where the good is overshadowed by extremes. 

There is an issue with police accountability and some inherent racism.   Micheal Brown was a thug who stacked a police officer. Sadly, it's this case that's been the poster child for BLM. 

Then you have the case if Laquan McDonald that was shot more than a dozen times while still twenty feet from an officer in Chicago. 

The accountability and race issue is undermined when the Hands Up Don't Shoot myth if Brown is shouted and rioted about.  BLM. Is undermined when it devolved to white hatred and is a tool for destroying society.  

The players have a right to voice opinion.   I personally feel that kneeling or sitting or raising a fist during us disrespectful and divisive.  Sharing a nationality, is recognizing a shared identity. A black citizen should be as well treated as a yellow, old, or handicapped citizen.  

It seems counterproductive to attack the commonality to protest inequalities.  

Protesting at a football game as a player is even more grating, doing it during the Anthem makes it worse.  I don't like it, and think its inappropriate.  It is their right to do so.   The owners and others are joining in now because it's become a divisive issue against Trump and generally against "other" Americans.  Trump is as guilty as the left wing and mainstream media of finding benefit in hyperbole that breeds division.  

Now if the players made sure they respectfully stood for the flag and anthem, and then took a knee for thirty seconds, and talked about community policing and incidents like Laquan instead of Michael Brown, rioting, Fidel, calling police pigs, what's to be offended about?     But reasonable, uniting, peaceful, intelligent protest will not motivate voters, gain viewers for news shows, or get clicks on the internet like Us vs Them will. Sad. 

Stand for Unity, kneel for grievance.  This is an issue that can only be remedied with us working together, not by fighting against each other.   Why alienate your needed compatriots? Only because " sheople " are allowing themselves to be manipulated by greedy media and political adversaries...

Edited September 27, 2017 by Anomaly

[havok579257]

7 hours ago, dominicansoul said:

I think it's stupid.  You want to protest against police brutality, take it up with a precinct.  Put your millions to use by adopting a thug and put him in a reform school.   Don't insult ALL Americans to try and win sympathy for your cause.  

Maybe it's because conservatives love this country and these idiots are insulting it...

I really don't care why they say they are doing it, it's just an opportunity for the leftists to hate on America.  It's funny how liberals want to bark about "first ammendment rights" when that means hate against our country but then go rioting when conservatives don't want to bake a stupid gay wedding cake.  I can assure you if the NFL was disrespecting that rainbow flag they'd all be fired!!!  

You do understand police brutality is not just against thugs?  Its against good men and women also.  

 

So now the vast majority of football players are leftists?  How about all the owners who supported Trump?  Are they leftists also?  So everyone who has an opinion contrary to yours on this subject is a leftists?

 

So because liberals want to supress free speech, that gives conservatives the right to try and supress free speech when its a supposed "leftist cause".  Conservatives can not claim the moral high ground on free speech when they are all for supressing it themselves.  Cause when you demand a private citizen be fired from their job for expressing their free speech rights when their bosses let them do it, is just like what the liberals are doing.

 

More and more each day I realize conservatives are just like liberals in so many ways.  All these things they rail against liberals for, they do themselves.  They just think their cause is righteous, so what they are doing is ok and since liberals cause is bad, what they are doing is wrong.

1 hour ago, Anomaly said:

Aa usual, it is too much drama, where the good is overshadowed by extremes. 

There is an issue with police accountability and some inherent racism.   Micheal Brown was a thug who stacked a police officer. Sadly, it's this case that's been the poster child for BLM. 

Then you have the case if Laquan McDonald that was shot more than a dozen times while still twenty feet from an officer in Chicago. 

The accountability and race issue is undermined when the Hands Up Don't Shoot myth if Brown is shouted and rioted about.  BLM. Is undermined when it devolved to white hatred and is a tool for destroying society.  

The players have a right to voice opinion.   I personally feel that kneeling or sitting or raising a fist during us disrespectful and divisive.  Sharing a nationality, is recognizing a shared identity. A black citizen should be as well treated as a yellow, old, or handicapped citizen.  

It seems counterproductive to attack the commonality to protest inequalities.  

Protesting at a football game as a player is even more grating, doing it during the Anthem makes it worse.  I don't like it, and think its inappropriate.  It is their right to do so.   The owners and others are joining in now because it's become a divisive issue against Trump and generally against "other" Americans.  Trump is as guilty as the left wing and mainstream media of finding benefit in hyperbole that breeds division.  

Now if the players made sure they respectfully stood for the flag and anthem, and then took a knee for thirty seconds, and talked about community policing and incidents like Laquan instead of Michael Brown, rioting, Fidel, calling police pigs, what's to be offended about?     But reasonable, uniting, peaceful, intelligent protest will not motivate voters, gain viewers for news shows, or get clicks on the internet like Us vs Them will. Sad. 

Stand for Unity, kneel for grievance.  This is an issue that can only be remedied with us working together, not by fighting against each other.   Why alienate your needed compatriots? Only because " sheople " are allowing themselves to be manipulated by greedy media and political adversaries...

I don't think its attacking the commonality at all.  Its using their platform which the american people give to them, to express their views.  Agree with their actions or not, their message is being heard.  I have seen so many conservatives say they athletes should express their opinions after the game on twitter or whatever social media then use.  Well if that happened, this issue would have already been forgotten about.  With american's short attention span, this would be just like so many other things, mentioned and then forgotten about.  What they are doing is getting the attention they want for their cause and its not going away.  So their methods are working.

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Let's be honest here, if every single christian football player kneeled for the anthem and did so with the express purpose of showing how bad the country is being destroyed by abortion, the vast majority of conservatives would have no issue with it.  If they kneeled until abortion was made illegal they would be cheered as heroes in conservative circles.  Although because they support something a lot of conservatives either don't believe or don't support (that police brutality is a real issue), then these liberal hippies are being disrespectful.  

[dUSt]

3 hours ago, Anomaly said:

As usual, it is too much drama, where the good is overshadowed by extremes. 

I could copy & paste this comment and apply it to 99% of the Facebook comments I see. Spot on.

[dominicansoul]

1 hour ago, havok579257 said:

So now the vast majority of football players are leftists?  How about all the owners who supported Trump?  Are they leftists also?  So everyone who has an opinion contrary to yours on this subject is a leftists?

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Let's be honest here, if every single christian football player kneeled for the anthem and did so with the express purpose of showing how bad the country is being destroyed by abortion, the vast majority of conservatives would have no issue with it.  If they kneeled until abortion was made illegal they would be cheered as heroes in conservative circles.  Although because they support something a lot of conservatives either don't believe or don't support (that police brutality is a real issue), then these liberal hippies are being disrespectful.  

The owners and the conservative players are AFRAID of backlash!!! Look at what happened to that lone Pittsburgh Steeler, he's had to apologize ad nauseum for loving his country!   Wake up!! Leftists want to control your mind and your emotions!  

Let's be honest here, if it was the gay pride flag they were objecting to, there would be massive layoffs.  Let's be honest here, if any football player wanted to protest abortion, they wouldn't do it by protesting the american anthem or the american flag.  Conservatives are already protesting abortion correctly, on the front lines, praying in front of abortion clinics.  That's where these football players need to protest, in police precincts.  

 

[Anomaly]

13 minutes ago, dUSt said:

I could copy & paste this comment and apply it to 99% of the Facebook comments I see. Spot on.

The extreme misinterpretation and extreme reaction to perceived outrage is the business model for Facebook, Google, online and broadcast media, as well as politics.   Society is creating its own self perpetuating neurosis via the new social media age. 

[havok579257]

30 minutes ago, dominicansoul said:

The owners and the conservative players are AFRAID of backlash!!! Look at what happened to that lone Pittsburgh Steeler, he's had to apologize ad nauseum for loving his country!   Wake up!! Leftists want to control your mind and your emotions!  

Let's be honest here, if it was the gay pride flag they were objecting to, there would be massive layoffs.  Let's be honest here, if any football player wanted to protest abortion, they wouldn't do it by protesting the american anthem or the american flag.  Conservatives are already protesting abortion correctly, on the front lines, praying in front of abortion clinics.  That's where these football players need to protest, in police precincts.  

 

So now all conservative owners and players are cowards? Your sweeping generalizations are absurd. Have you ever thought thatvmaube, just maybe conservative owners and players support this cause? Why in your mind does it have to be only liberals and cowardly conservatives who support this cause? Why are you making sweeping generalizations?

 

Well considering these players and not protesting the flag or the anthem I don't see what your point is.  Have you actually read what these have said and why they are protesting or are u just listening to the media's reasons why these players are protesting.  You obviously have not been following this other than what the media talks about it.  Cause if you have actually been paying attention you would have read from the protesters themselves that this is not about protesting the flag or the anthem . 

 

So now there are only approved methods and places in your mind to protest things. So if an athlete wants to protest abortion he can only do it in front of a clinic? He can't use his platform to get his message out?  Who gets to decide to approved methods of protest? You? I guess it's equally wrong for a person to go on a talk show and rail against abortions.  I mean if they want to protest abortion they can do it on their own, away from the media and only in front of a clinic. Why on earth should anyone try to use whatever platform they have to spread their message. 

[dominicansoul]

People can use any platform they choose, but hating on the american flag is just plain stupid.  It doesn't solve the issue.  Is anyone really thinking about their protest or more about how they are disrespecting the flag?  It would be like me going up to your mama and slapping her across her face cos I have a problem with you.  How does that fix you???  How does that lead to anything positive???

I know conservatives support awareness of police brutality, we just don't think it's as prevalent as leftists have you believe it is.  Majority of conservatives support the police more than they do the guilty thugs who have been shot by police.   Even Jerry Jones cowardly went back on his words and knelt then linked arms during the anthem.  They don't want to upset their million dollar players.  It really goes back to losing $$$$.  And boy are the NFL owners ever STUCK.  They risk back lash from the fans or backlash from their players.  NFL even came out with a job ad Monday asking for a communications director, someone who is skilled in "crisis" communications... Lol.  

[KnightofChrist]

Just what unites this Country anymore? You can cross out football and the national anthem. Everywhere there is division. Football is dying, America and Western Civilization too. Nothing unites us anymore, there is nothing but division.

[havok579257]

3 minutes ago, dominicansoul said:

People can use any platform they choose, but hating on the american flag is just plain stupid.  It doesn't solve the issue.  Is anyone really thinking about their protest or more about how they are disrespecting the flag?  It would be like me going up to your mama and slapping her across her face cos I have a problem with you.  How does that fix you???  How does that lead to anything positive???

I know conservatives support awareness of police brutality, we just don't think it's as prevalent as leftists have you believe it is.  Majority of conservatives support the police more than they do the guilty thugs who have been shot by police.   Even Jerry Jones cowardly went back on his words and knelt then linked arms during the anthem.  They don't want to upset their million dollar players.  It really goes back to losing $$$$.  And boy are the NFL owners ever STUCK.  They risk back lash from the fans or backlash from their players.  NFL even came out with a job ad Monday asking for a communications director, someone who is skilled in "crisis" communications... Lol.  

This post shows me you have no clue what thelse protests are about other than what you have been told by the media.  Again I will restate since you must have missed it. The players are not protesting the flag or the anthem.  They have come out and said this. To claim they are when they have stayed they are not is ridiculous.  It's living in your own fantasy world and refusING to listen to anyone who has an opposing view from you. 

 

Here go we go again with the over reaction to things. Now kneeling for the anthem is akin to physically assaulting someones mother? It's not ok for liberals to over exaggerate things but it's ok for conservatives? 

 

Also here we go again with sweeping generalizations. Conservative players and owners can't support this cause unless they are cowards afraid of backlash. Im just wondering, do you have a book or something that outlines what a conservative can support and it be considered legit and not be considered cowardly? 

 

Oh and just a little fyi, it's not only guilty thugs who are being shot by police.  Also not all of your so called thugs deserved to be shot or beaten. An unarmed man does not deserve to be shot. Not all police brutality and shootings are just justified and not all are unjustified.  Neither sidea is right. Liberals over exaggerate it and conservative under exaggerate it. Although as to why it's an issue that someone protests this is beyond me.

6 minutes ago, KnightofChrist said:

Just what unites this Country anymore? You can cross out football and the national anthem. Everywhere there is division. Football is dying, America and Western Civilization too. Nothing unites us anymore, there is nothing but division.

To be fair, football is dying not because of this but because of science . The more we learn about CTE, the more parents are deciding against putting their children into football when they are young. In a few decades football will no longer be the number 1 sport in america. Youth participation is decreasing and will only continue to go down. 

 

There is only division in this country because both sides refuse to listen to the other side and just talk over each other. No longer can people disagree with each other on politics and still be friends.  Now if you don't support my party, your dead to me and we cut each other off. It's sad really.