FDR and Racism

[Anomaly]

Compromise would be relocating the Confederate monument from in front of Government buildings. No exceptions

Public vote to remove from public property, such as parks.  

Removal from Government to be paid by Government.   On other property , 50% public 50% private.   100% relocation costs by private funds.

Thats a start    A lot needs to be discussed at a local level with mutual respect.   A Confederate monument is not necessarily 100% racist, but it is impossible got it to be 100% NOT racist.

 

 

[dominicansoul]

What will be the terms for when they force crosses to be removed from all public places, and to where we cannot display our faith in public because the leftists demand our faith is bigoted and racist and historically killed off the First Nations and native Americans?  Will they force it all into a museum too? 

Whos to judge what is racist in our society?  Leftists?  Do we really want them judging what is right and wrong?  

[havok579257]

15 minutes ago, dominicansoul said:

What will be the terms for when they force crosses to be removed from all public places, and to where we cannot display our faith in public because the leftists demand our faith is bigoted and racist and historically killed off the First Nations and native Americans?  Will they force it all into a museum too? 

Whos to judge what is racist in our society?  Leftists?  Do we really want them judging what is right and wrong?  

i think any sane person can judge confederate statues are racist to black people.  i honestly don't know how any human with any sense could not understand what a confederate statue means to a black person.

 

i think some things are not subjective and can be asserted quite easily.  yes, its subjective to say Trump is a racist.  its not subjective to say a confederate statues which represents a time and a group of people who killed, mutilated, tortured, raped and so on toward black people is racist to them.   the fact is, at the end of the day black people were treated so inhumanly in this country.  the statues of the people who fought to keep the status quo the same represent hatred and bigotry to black people.  cut it any way you want, but to black american's this is what it represents.  so i don't understand why people are not ok with these statues coming down?  if you were in a black persons shoes, you to would want it down.  i think we need to look at it from the victims point of view and understand what it means to them and why it needs to come down.

[dominicansoul]

16 minutes ago, havok579257 said:

i think any sane person can judge confederate statues are racist to black people.  i honestly don't know how any human with any sense could not understand what a confederate statue means to a black person.

 

i think some things are not subjective and can be asserted quite easily.  yes, its subjective to say Trump is a racist.  its not subjective to say a confederate statues which represents a time and a group of people who killed, mutilated, tortured, raped and so on toward black people is racist to them.   the fact is, at the end of the day black people were treated so inhumanly in this country.  the statues of the people who fought to keep the status quo the same represent hatred and bigotry to black people.  cut it any way you want, but to black american's this is what it represents.  so i don't understand why people are not ok with these statues coming down?  if you were in a black persons shoes, you to would want it down.  i think we need to look at it from the victims point of view and understand what it means to them and why it needs to come down.

Im against racism.  And duly noted, all though These things have never bothered me enough to destroy them,  i can see why the black community hates them...

but my whole objection arises from the type of censorship and how it may fall on us someday as well.  It's already happening to some Catholic imagery.  .

 I'm weary of any kind of censorship 

I hate racism but I am not against legally censoring it.  If some dumbass wants to be hateful he has every right to be.  This is America!  If two men can fall in "love" and marry, why can't two men hate each other's guts?  Are we really wanting to control each other's emotions?  Do you really want one group to control the other way to think?  That's why it's dangerous to allow certain groups to define what is offensive and what is not.  Religious have pretty much objected to every ungodly thing American law has done in the past 60 years.  What we do is pray and hope and act civilly against such things.  We aren't out there pulling girls out of abortion clinics by force, tearing down billboards or burning planned parenthoods.  

Why couldn't cities vote on these confederate monuments?   

I'm a little suspicious as to why this iconoclasm is happening now?  Why not under husseins rule?  Things that make you go hmmmmmm.  

 

I agree wirh with your sentiment, but I don't think that's the real reason it's  happening... I'm very suspicious... 

[havok579257]

36 minutes ago, dominicansoul said:

Im against racism.  And duly noted, all though These things have never bothered me enough to destroy them,  i can see why the black community hates them...

but my whole objection arises from the type of censorship and how it may fall on us someday as well.  It's already happening to some Catholic imagery.  .

 I'm weary of any kind of censorship 

I hate racism but I am not against legally censoring it.  If some dumbass wants to be hateful he has every right to be.  This is America!  If two men can fall in "love" and marry, why can't two men hate each other's guts?  Are we really wanting to control each other's emotions?  Do you really want one group to control the other way to think?  That's why it's dangerous to allow certain groups to define what is offensive and what is not.  Religious have pretty much objected to every ungodly thing American law has done in the past 60 years.  What we do is pray and hope and act civilly against such things.  We aren't out there pulling girls out of abortion clinics by force, tearing down billboards or burning planned parenthoods.  

Why couldn't cities vote on these confederate monuments?   

I'm a little suspicious as to why this iconoclasm is happening now?  Why not under husseins rule?  Things that make you go hmmmmmm.  

 

I agree wirh with your sentiment, but I don't think that's the real reason it's  happening... I'm very suspicious... 

i am all for two guys hating each other as a right.  the issue for me is these statues are on government property and were paid for by government money, so they should come down.  if its privately funded and on private property then i don't care.  although i think there are somethings that the government should not promote.  this is one of them.  

 

the media is just covering this now.  groups of black people have been trying to get these statues down for a while.  its only the media covering it now is when it gets noticed by the majority of the public.  can't blame that on the people who are wanting the statues down.

 

hussein?  do you mean obama?  can't really call out liberals for their insults toward Trump when your doing the same thing to obama.

[dominicansoul]

2 minutes ago, havok579257 said:

 

hussein?  do you mean obama?  can't really call out liberals for their insults toward Trump when your doing the same thing to obama.

how is calling him by his name offensive?  Why are people so easily triggered by what they presume are insults?  You kind of prove my points---we are gonna have to deal with censoring anything and everything someone finds offensive...

Okay so are you for statues of the Ten Commandment coming down and nativity scenes and crosses if they are all on federal land?  That's already been happening.  I'm not for that at all...

[Ash Wednesday]

The thing about historical figures like FDR, while he did enact some policies that were wrong at the time, he is generally viewed in an accomplished light by history when looking at the overall perspective. 

Examining things like statues from the Confederacy, I would ask: why is the statue there? What is the monument trying to say? Are there other ways of illustrating our history with full completeness and accuracy and without sending the wrong message? Was this a historical figure that did other noteworthy deeds, or is it just a monument celebrating the Confederacy in itself? If it's the latter then....eh, I can see why black people would want that down. Personally if they were that offensive they should have been taken down ages ago.

I suppose one thing I would wonder about is why people who had the power to take them down suddenly understand the urgent need to take them down now when they were content to just look the other way for hundreds of years. While the end result of showing greater racial sensitivity and working towards societal harmony is a good thing (Put out your tiki torch, put your hand down and go home. You look like an idiot.) there is another undercurrent movement of harsh political correctness and secularism at play driven by bands of social justice warriors that have an agenda that I'm a little skeptical of that isn't just about racism -- the kind of agenda that sees no value in a statue of St. Junipero Serra and his historical role and legislates to have him replaced by the more "modern" figure, Sally Ride. That is where I ask what is the real intent and agenda, and where can there be any discussion or compromise? Are we even capable of that anymore? I have to wonder.

[havok579257]

8 hours ago, dominicansoul said:

how is calling him by his name offensive?  Why are people so easily triggered by what they presume are insults?  You kind of prove my points---we are gonna have to deal with censoring anything and everything someone finds offensive...

Okay so are you for statues of the Ten Commandment coming down and nativity scenes and crosses if they are all on federal land?  That's already been happening.  I'm not for that at all...

that's not his first or last name.  do you go around calling everyone by their middle name?  do you call your family members by their middle name?  your co-workers?  priests?  its not about censorship, its about being insulting.  if you don't call everyone you know by their middle name then explain to me why you call just obama by his middle name?  cause if your specifically calling one person and only them by their middle name, there is a reason for that.  i would love to hear why.

 

i am all for the ten commandments and the nativity scenes coming down if a group of people can show me (factually)  how they were treated as less than people, tortured, raped and murdered by God and Jesus.  unless they can show that, the statues can stay can up.  that's the problem with the confederate statues.  there is 100% proof blacks were tortured, mutilated, murdered, raped and treated as less than humans and the confederates fought to keep the status quo.  it is a symbol of oppression to a race of people and they should not be forced to look upon these statues on government property as a sign of honor.  

3 hours ago, Ash Wednesday said:

The thing about historical figures like FDR, while he did enact some policies that were wrong at the time, he is generally viewed in an accomplished light by history when looking at the overall perspective. 

Examining things like statues from the Confederacy, I would ask: why is the statue there? What is the monument trying to say? Are there other ways of illustrating our history with full completeness and accuracy and without sending the wrong message? Was this a historical figure that did other noteworthy deeds, or is it just a monument celebrating the Confederacy in itself? If it's the latter then....eh, I can see why black people would want that down. Personally if they were that offensive they should have been taken down ages ago.

I suppose one thing I would wonder about is why people who had the power to take them down suddenly understand the urgent need to take them down now when they were content to just look the other way for hundreds of years. While the end result of showing greater racial sensitivity and working towards societal harmony is a good thing (Put out your tiki torch, put your hand down and go home. You look like an idiot.) there is another undercurrent movement of harsh political correctness and secularism at play driven by bands of social justice warriors that have an agenda that I'm a little skeptical of that isn't just about racism -- the kind of agenda that sees no value in a statue of St. Junipero Serra and his historical role and legislates to have him replaced by the more "modern" figure, Sally Ride. That is where I ask what is the real intent and agenda, and where can there be any discussion or compromise? Are we even capable of that anymore? I have to wonder.

to be fair lots of these statues went up way after the civil war during the civil rights movement era.  they were put up then for a specific reason for blacks to get the message.

 

also there is a difference between the media and the black people who have been working to get these statues down for years.  the media is doing this to get ratings and bash Trump but there have been many groups of black people for years trying to get these statues down.  the media just never bothered to show it because they didn't care.

[Ash Wednesday]

11 minutes ago, havok579257 said:

also there is a difference between the media and the black people who have been working to get these statues down for years.  the media is doing this to get ratings and bash Trump but there have been many groups of black people for years trying to get these statues down.  the media just never bothered to show it because they didn't care.

Agreed.

It feels a bit to me like an insincere temporary fix to assuage guilt and a moment people are caught up in. I mean, it accomplishes something short term but I'm not sure people really will address the deeper racial problems longer term.

[dominicansoul]

39 minutes ago, havok579257 said:

that's not his first or last name.  do you go around calling everyone by their middle name?  do you call your family members by their middle name?  your co-workers?  priests?  its not about censorship, its about being insulting.  if you don't call everyone you know by their middle name then explain to me why you call just obama by his middle name?  cause if your specifically calling one person and only them by their middle name, there is a reason for that.  i would love to hear why.

Since when is calling someone by their middle name offensive and insulting?  

Are you Barrack Hussein Obama?  He'd be the only one I'd listen to if he didn't like me using his middle name.

I don't really  need to tell you why I call him that.  Maybe I like it better than his other two names, maybe people calling George Bush "W" made me think we should all call president's by their middle names?  I don't know.  I like it better.  It's prettier.  

quit being offended over absolutely nothing...sheesh

[havok579257]

4 hours ago, dominicansoul said:

Since when is calling someone by their middle name offensive and insulting?  

Are you Barrack Hussein Obama?  He'd be the only one I'd listen to if he didn't like me using his middle name.

I don't really  need to tell you why I call him that.  Maybe I like it better than his other two names, maybe people calling George Bush "W" made me think we should all call president's by their middle names?  I don't know.  I like it better.  It's prettier.  

quit being offended over absolutely nothing...sheesh

so then if your all about calling presidents by their middle names why don't you use that same logic for Trump?  kind of selective.  

 

we all know calling obama, hussein is an attempted dig at his middle name being a middle eastern name.  its the same thing when lots of conservative radio hosts would over-emphasize hussein.  they did it as a jab.  its meant as a jab.  same way people calling trump mr. trump instead of president trump is a jab at him.  

 

the issue is conservatives do the same things liberals do and liberals do the same thing conservatives do and then they all cry outrage when the other side does something back to them.  this is perfect example of why this country is so divided.  if you insult by party or their leaders then I am offended but if I offend you leaders or party, well its justified.  there is just very little respect in this country.  you can disagree with someone and not be disrespectful.  its just like on these boards when some people talk about gay people.  instead of referring to them as gay or homosexual they address them as SSA.  or if someone was a man and now says they are a women and instead of steve wants to be called sally and you refuse to call them sally, then your just being an insulting jerk.  you can disagree with someone's lifestyle and actions and still be respectful.   

[dominicansoul]

When you assume you make an ass out of yourself.  Quit assuming stuff and maybe you wouldn't be so offended.  I don't use trumps middle name cos I didn't even know he had one.  I don't see him like I do our past presidents anyway.  He's a business man, not much of a politician.  I called Hilary "pantsuit." Rodham isn't really her middle name it's her maiden so that didn't work for me.  I don't like it much anyway. 

as far as whoever else uses hussein I wouldn't know i don't listen to mass media right or left.  I thought I was the only one that used hussein.   Now you've ruined it for me doesn't seem so original anymore. 

[vee]

 

[KnightofChrist]

Cry Havok and let slip the dogs of Hussein.

[Seven77]

 I'm no fan but I also thought it was odd to call President Obama "Hussein,"  because it reminds me of Saddam Hussein....  I mean, I've seen people call him Barack Hussein Obama but never just Hussein. But, I guess it's just a more effective diss. 

7 hours ago, KnightofChrist said:

Cry Havok and let slip the dogs of Hussein.

Wait, now I'm confused--- Whose dogs are those?