Catholic Malta legalizes same sex unions

[PhuturePriest]

Just now, truthfinder said:

I just realized his avatar is Ignatius - this has been staring us in the face for some time.

I heard some Jesuits speaking about their time-to-vows, as being they were the exception past the already long formation. Whatever else we may say or thing of the Jesuits, they are incredibly patient. 

I remember being shocked at how long the Jesuits take. I was used to the standard 7 years, so when I heard for Jesuits it can take 12, 15, or even more years it was very strange to me. I think Father Martin said he was in formation for 20 years before he took final vows.

[Benedictus]

3 hours ago, PhuturePriest said:

Regency? You're a Jesuit, then?

Yes - I'm a scholastic in first vows

3 hours ago, truthfinder said:

I just realized his avatar is Ignatius - this has been staring us in the face for some time.

I heard some Jesuits speaking about their time-to-vows, as being they were the exception past the already long formation. Whatever else we may say or thing of the Jesuits, they are incredibly patient. 

I mentioned it before, probably on the vocation or prayer section.  I think the time scale policy for a religious tag was partly introduced so I couldn't get one   I never made a big deal of announcing my entering or taking vows on here. I'm an optimists, but also a realist-  as it's me I doubt many people on this forum would exactly be thanking God.

3 hours ago, PhuturePriest said:

I remember being shocked at how long the Jesuits take. I was used to the standard 7 years, so when I heard for Jesuits it can take 12, 15, or even more years it was very strange to me. I think Father Martin said he was in formation for 20 years before he took final vows.

Yes, average minimum for final vows is about 10 years. Some take a bit longer because of work, training or extra prep for readiness. The formation is structured, but flexible in what types of things you can do. It has been known for men to train as teachers, medics, artists, musicians etc during this time. Lots of possibilities. Luckily you don't have to wait to take final vows before getting ordained. 

[truthfinder]

3 hours ago, Benedictus said:

Yes - I'm a scholastic in first vows

I mentioned it before, probably on the vocation or prayer section.  I think the time scale policy for a religious tag was partly introduced so I couldn't get one   I never made a big deal of announcing my entering or taking vows on here. I'm an optimists, but also a realist-  as it's me I doubt many people on this forum would exactly be thanking God.

Yes, average minimum for final vows is about 10 years. Some take a bit longer because of work, training or extra prep for readiness. The formation is structured, but flexible in what types of things you can do. It has been known for men to train as teachers, medics, artists, musicians etc during this time. Lots of possibilities. Luckily you don't have to wait to take final vows before getting ordained. 

I think the Jesuits are a bit of a 'oddity' in terms of this. I was speaking with a Benedictine friar, and he was saying that they couldn't start studying for ordination (theology) until after final vows. 

[PhuturePriest]

52 minutes ago, truthfinder said:

I think the Jesuits are a bit of a 'oddity' in terms of this. I was speaking with a Benedictine friar, and he was saying that they couldn't start studying for ordination (theology) until after final vows. 

I think that's because, at least insofar as the Rule is concerned, men are selected by the priesthood out of necessity. They are usually longtime members and do not seek it out themselves, but are chosen by the abbot. Saint Benedict wanted communities to consist primarily of brothers with sparing amounts of priests. For good or for ill, many (perhaps even most) Benedictine communities today consist of more priests than the Rule sets out, but there are those that adhere to it.

I know that Franciscans may begin studying for priesthood usually during the novitiate or, at most, once they've professed temporary vows. I believe Carmelites are this way, too.

[PhuturePriest]

By the way, I know the aforementioned business about men being selected and not because they themselves feel called in part because I spoke with a Benedictine community once concerning entrance and the priesthood, and the vocation director told me he wouldn't recommend that I enter there if I desired to be a priest because they were selected by the abbot of necessity. In their understanding of it, a man knows he is called if/when the abbot asks him, not because of personal promptings. His primary vocation is always to be a brother in community, and anything else is secondary. The only reason they have priests is simply in service to the community, so they only have the bare minimum required to serve the community's sacramental needs. I know the more nuanced end of it because I visited a different Benedictine community with a priest friend and he lamented how many priests there were.

I love how derailed Phatmass threads become. It's always been a beautiful thing, and always will be.

Edited August 8, 2017 by PhuturePriest

[Benedictus]

18 hours ago, PhuturePriest said:

By the way, I know the aforementioned business about men being selected and not because they themselves feel called in part because I spoke with a Benedictine community once concerning entrance and the priesthood, and the vocation director told me he wouldn't recommend that I enter there if I desired to be a priest because they were selected by the abbot of necessity. In their understanding of it, a man knows he is called if/when the abbot asks him, not because of personal promptings. His primary vocation is always to be a brother in community, and anything else is secondary. The only reason they have priests is simply in service to the community, so they only have the bare minimum required to serve the community's sacramental needs. I know the more nuanced end of it because I visited a different Benedictine community with a priest friend and he lamented how many priests there were.

I love how derailed Phatmass threads become. It's always been a beautiful thing, and always will be.

Yes, it's always interesting how varied Benedictines are. I've visited communities where most are sent to be priests, partly because of the work they do and also to give the Abbott more choice when delegating monks over a longer period of time. There is also the issue that if a monk isn't a priest they cannot hold certain offices, such as Abbott. That's my understanding of it. To prevent restricting very able members some communities simply offer the same formation unless a monk explicitly asks not to be or can't be (for whatever reason). In the day to day life though they kept distinctions in this regard to a minimum.

There have been similar issues among Jesuits - the distinction between priests and brothers used to be fairly acute. Brothers were often very limited in the roles they were expected to take on. Even among the priests not all are accepted (or want) to take the fourth vow. If they don't then they are restricted from holding certain offices. They  would effectively be prevented from advancing internally within the order in many respects. There have been criticisms that superiors in the past have blocked people they don't like who could have been very good.  But, such is life. These things happen.

[Seven77]

On 8/7/2017 at 9:35 PM, truthfinder said:

'I was speaking with a Benedictine friar monk, and he was saying that they couldn't start studying for ordination (theology) until after final vows.

 

fixed

Edited August 9, 2017 by Seven77

[truthfinder]

1 hour ago, Seven77 said:

fixed

 I'm usually much better about these things. Though, in my defense, their non-ordained monks are called frater - which makes me think friar.

[PhuturePriest]

On 8/9/2017 at 3:18 PM, truthfinder said:

 I'm usually much better about these things. Though, in my defense, their non-ordained monks are called frater - which makes me think friar.

Well, both do mean the same thing, so you can be forgiven in this instance.