Catholic Politics

[princessgianna]

[quote name='havok579257' post='1643338' date='Aug 31 2008, 12:51 PM']except the rebublicans are anything but pro-life. Look at all the people they have killed due to the Iraq war. Abortion is not the only aspect we are called to be pro-life on. We as Catholics are called to be pro-life on all matters of life, not just one aspect.[/quote]

that is true but
people die in wars! It is sad! It is what happens! As the Iraq war goes the media plays so much around it I don't really know anymore!

You have to protect human life in all stages and I have not heard of any poliction that would be the ideal one (except for Huckabee)

if you want to win you have to bind together. McCain is not my first pick but he comes before Obama!

but that is only my opinion!

[atheling]

[quote]On the other hand, I don't think the Republican Party cares enough about the poor and needy, even though some of its national leaders are courageous defenders of life and family values.[/quote]

I become uneasy whenever a Catholic organization starts talking about "social justice", because it is sometimes code for "socialism" a la Dorothy Day.

Secondly, the statement that Republicans don't care about the "poor and needy" is a bunch of baloney. Most conservatives are Republican, and statistics have proven that conservatives [url="http://www.beliefnet.com/story/204/story_20419_1.html"]donate[/url] [i]more money[/i] to the poor and needy than liberals do.

Let's look at the most glaring example here. Everyone knows that the (Republican) McCains are quite wealthy. Cindy McCain is an heiress, who inherited the fortune her WWII veteran father made after he came home from the war, got a GI loan, and started up Anheuser-Busch. Cindy's wealth means that she never had to work. However, after earning her degree in teaching, she worked for years in a public school with developmentally disabled children. She has founded humanitarian organizations, such as American Voluntary Medical Team to go to 3rd world countries and provide emergency care to children. And her involvement was not just administrative, but [i]hands on[/i]. She personally led 55 missions herself to help sick children, one of which resulted in her taking home two babies from Mother Teresa's orphanage to adopt one herself, and arrange for the adoption of the other child.

She is also on the board of HALO, which removes land mines from war torn countries. She also serves on the board of Operation Smile, which offers free surgery for babies born with cleft palates in 3rd world countries. Her work involved medical missions to refugees in Rwanda (during that horrible genocide), Morocco, India and Vietnam.

Now let's look at the (Democrat) Obamas. Michelle is a lawyer, as is her husband. Apparently Barack has a half brother in Africa who subsists on $12.00 a year, and lives in a hut. They have donated over $20,000.00 to Trinity Church, from which they resigned after the Wright fiasco. Nowhere in the Obamas' history do I see the level of charity work that approaches the McCains'.

And, as I recall, Democrat Al Gore's 1997 federal tax return reported that he donated a whopping [url="http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1998/04/15/gore.taxes/"]$353.00 [/url]to charity. Heck, I donated a lot more than that and I'm nowhere near the riches he is.

I just want to point out that the Catholic organization's statement about Republicans not caring for the poor is hogwash. Just because they oppose socialism and handouts doesn't mean they don't care. They just think it's wrong to take money from people who have earned it and FORCE them to donate via government bureaucratic agencies. And I agree. I prefer to choose who I donate to, and keep the government out of my wallet.

[Balthazor]

I will admit that one unfortunite side effect of government spending on public programs is that people no longer feel obligated to give to Charitable organizations.
We have seen the decline of the Church and the Church's role in society in the twentieth century because the Church has fallen from its traditional role as the principal organization regarding social charity. Not 60 years ago we could see many more Churches and Church organizations in roles as provider for poor, sick, underprivilaged, orphans and widows. Social welfare did unfortunitly cause a decline in people's donations to "Church Charities" and an increase in resentment towards the people recieving government entitlements and grants.

How do we remedy this? That is a good question. There needs to be a lot of law reform to allow Churches to do this work.

For example: One case was that a Catholic adoption agency clsed because the state it was in , Ihink California, would not allow the agency to discriminate against parents: That is it would not place a child to a homosexual couple and it would only place children in Catholic families as per the request of the birth mom.

Readjust the adoption law so that Catholic mothers, who give thier children to Catholic orpahnages/adoption agencies can retain thier spiritual right to have thier children placed in Catholic Homes and raised in Catholic families with a mother and a father. This is the least we can give a mother, who realizes she can not care for her child and has the courage and the trust to give it up to anothe family. She is helping the government in tow ways: 1. She will not have to rely on government funds to support herself and her child. 2. She is supporting the population by not having an abortion and furthermore she is saving the government the possible cost of the abortion.

I am not completely against government intervention, and I do beleive that social programs definatley have thier place.
But discretion and vigilaence has to be maintained over ANY and EVERY government department ad bureau...including the military. Governemtn administrative bodies do not have profit as a motivater and in many cases if they actually accomplished what they were created toto do they would put themselves out of business. So they stay around FOREVER doing an ineffecient job to prolong it and kept the paychecks rolling in. There has got to be a way to provide where needed and still be able to let the Church have the its place in social welfare.

[havok579257]

[quote name='princessgianna' post='1643383' date='Aug 31 2008, 02:09 PM']that is true but
people die in wars! It is sad! It is what happens! As the Iraq war goes the media plays so much around it I don't really know anymore!

You have to protect human life in all stages and I have not heard of any poliction that would be the ideal one (except for Huckabee)

if you want to win you have to bind together. McCain is not my first pick but he comes before Obama!

but that is only my opinion![/quote]

people die in wars, but if its an unjust war, that makes the killing even worse. The Pope has stated he is against this war. So if the head of the Catholic church is against the war, I don't see how any practicing Catholic can vote for Mccain when he has said he will stay in this war for a 100 years if need be.

[havok579257]

[quote name='atheling' post='1643481' date='Aug 31 2008, 04:39 PM']I become uneasy whenever a Catholic organization starts talking about "social justice", because it is sometimes code for "socialism" a la Dorothy Day.

Secondly, the statement that Republicans don't care about the "poor and needy" is a bunch of baloney. Most conservatives are Republican, and statistics have proven that conservatives [url="http://www.beliefnet.com/story/204/story_20419_1.html"]donate[/url] [i]more money[/i] to the poor and needy than liberals do.

Let's look at the most glaring example here. Everyone knows that the (Republican) McCains are quite wealthy. Cindy McCain is an heiress, who inherited the fortune her WWII veteran father made after he came home from the war, got a GI loan, and started up Anheuser-Busch. Cindy's wealth means that she never had to work. However, after earning her degree in teaching, she worked for years in a public school with developmentally disabled children. She has founded humanitarian organizations, such as American Voluntary Medical Team to go to 3rd world countries and provide emergency care to children. And her involvement was not just administrative, but [i]hands on[/i]. She personally led 55 missions herself to help sick children, one of which resulted in her taking home two babies from Mother Teresa's orphanage to adopt one herself, and arrange for the adoption of the other child.

She is also on the board of HALO, which removes land mines from war torn countries. She also serves on the board of Operation Smile, which offers free surgery for babies born with cleft palates in 3rd world countries. Her work involved medical missions to refugees in Rwanda (during that horrible genocide), Morocco, India and Vietnam.

Now let's look at the (Democrat) Obamas. Michelle is a lawyer, as is her husband. Apparently Barack has a half brother in Africa who subsists on $12.00 a year, and lives in a hut. They have donated over $20,000.00 to Trinity Church, from which they resigned after the Wright fiasco. Nowhere in the Obamas' history do I see the level of charity work that approaches the McCains'.

And, as I recall, Democrat Al Gore's 1997 federal tax return reported that he donated a whopping [url="http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1998/04/15/gore.taxes/"]$353.00 [/url]to charity. Heck, I donated a lot more than that and I'm nowhere near the riches he is.

I just want to point out that the Catholic organization's statement about Republicans not caring for the poor is hogwash. Just because they oppose socialism and handouts doesn't mean they don't care. They just think it's wrong to take money from people who have earned it and FORCE them to donate via government bureaucratic agencies. And I agree. I prefer to choose who I donate to, and keep the government out of my wallet.[/quote]


republicans and democrats don't care about the poor and needy. The poor and needy are simple another way for democrates and republicans to get elected, that's it.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='havok579257' post='1643953' date='Sep 1 2008, 12:48 AM']republicans and democrats don't care about the poor and needy. The poor and needy are simple another way for democrates and republicans to get elected, that's it.[/quote]
Deep down, I'm sure some of them are real people...

[havok579257]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1643961' date='Sep 1 2008, 01:56 AM']Deep down, I'm sure some of them are real people...[/quote]


maybe at one time, but power croupts and ultimate power corrupts ultimatly.

i would say 99% of politicians arte like this, there are a few good ones out there.

[Deb]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' post='1643290' date='Aug 31 2008, 11:37 AM']Yes Deb, but how many of us are Catholics and how many of us are "catholics"?[/quote]


I know. You are so right. My older brother and my father are going to vote for Obama. I have swayed my mother on the basis of the abortion issue. My brother calls himself a Catholic, but has not entered a Church in years and has not been to confession in probably thirty years. I told him to quit calling himself a Catholic.
I am going to buy a couple copies of Render Unto Ceasar and drop one at my parents. My dad needs to read it.

[Deb]

[quote name='havok579257' post='1643950' date='Sep 1 2008, 01:46 AM']people die in wars, but if its an unjust war, that makes the killing even worse. The Pope has stated he is against this war. So if the head of the Catholic church is against the war, I don't see how any practicing Catholic can vote for Mccain when he has said he will stay in this war for a 100 years if need be.[/quote]


Hmmm, how about 50 million aborted babies? Kind of takes precedence over any other issue. The war was a stupid action, unwarranted and wasteful in lives and money. Reality check though. Murdering just because you want to, any time, any place is far worse than what is happening in Iraq.