The Keepers

[dominicansoul]

Is anyone else watching this on Netflix?  What are your initial thoughts?  

 

I have a hard time believing accusations that have been buried for 40 years.  Not sure of stories like this, especially when Netflix has questionable documentaries that seem to push an agenda.  

[hotpink]

My opinion

It's a story that needs to be told.  

Reality?

It's a story only being told because it's OK to have this story regarding Catholics.  It wouldn't be ok to do this about any other group.  And it very much exists everywhere.

[Shiningstar]

I binge-watched the docuseries and am absolutely disgusted. Yes, it is true this happens in every area humans exist, but the fact that so much is covered up to protect the church is despicable. 

Granted, there are people who lie simply because of the hatred in their hearts; but take into consideration just who exactly these women are going up against. The simple fact that priests are held in such high regard and have much authority is precisely why so many victims keep quiet. Who would believe that a priest of all people would do such evil things? The Catholic Church is massive, and it is overwhelming for even me to comprehend just how much courage it takes for any abuse survivor to come forward, knowing full well the vast amount of people who would call them liars simply because of who they are accusing.

Whether we like it or not, there have been and still are abuse coverups in Catholic Churches... and yes, the same exact thing happens elsewhere. But pointing out another wrong doesn't make this less evil by any means. Where there is power there is corruption. It's that simple.

Edited May 21, 2017 by Shiningstar

[dominicansoul]

The way diocese across the church handle these issues is deplorable.  Things need to change!  I also binge watched and was totally disgusted.  

But what I didn't see from the documentary was the reason why they didn't go after the police?  The abused kept bringing up police raping her as well, so why were they not part of the criminal investigation and why weren't they sued, only the Church was.  

[Shiningstar]

7 minutes ago, dominicansoul said:

The way diocese across the church handle these issues is deplorable.  Things need to change!  I also binge watched and was totally disgusted.  

But what I didn't see from the documentary was the reason why they didn't go after the police?  The abused kept bringing up police raping her as well, so why were they not part of the criminal investigation and why weren't they sued, only the Church was.  

That's a really good question and one I wondered as well. Maybe the connection Maskell had to the police (with his brother being a cop and with Maskell himself being the chaplain to the police) and how the abuse was orchestrated by and happened in his presence was the reason for the Church to be the only one sued.

Honestly, I hope this is not the end of the docuseries, and maybe more will be answered.

[hotpink]

3 hours ago, dominicansoul said:

The way diocese across the church handle these issues is deplorable.  Things need to change!  I also binge watched and was totally disgusted.  

But what I didn't see from the documentary was the reason why they didn't go after the police?  The abused kept bringing up police raping her as well, so why were they not part of the criminal investigation and why weren't they sued, only the Church was.  

Let's be real here.  What the Catholic church did was terrible, but what other American institutions did (or do) on a daily basis is abhorrent.

I'd never heard of Whitey Bulger but I happened to be in So.CAL during his capture, so I became fascinated with his case, as much as possible from across the country.  What happened in Boston....cops pushing crime-scene cars to the town over so they'd have to deal, the FBI inherently corrupt, and about a million other things that the law enforcement was responsible for?  I mean, it's scary.  Not that the creep is innocent in any way...but what the officers of the law did is legit worry some, especially since almost none of them (the large majority) were punished in the slightest for what are horrific crimes.

[CatherineM]

Having worked in a mental health facility during the worst of the recovered memory era, I know that ten year old memories are suspect so 40 year old memories are scary. 

[truthfinder]

1 hour ago, CatherineM said:

Having worked in a mental health facility during the worst of the recovered memory era, I know that ten year old memories are suspect so 40 year old memories are scary. 

I've read a few small things on this, and it's terrifying. It's then also really scary to wonder if what you think happened in your own life really did. 

[dominicansoul]

The Archdiocese of Baltimore put up this website in response to the docuseries:

 

http://www.archbalt.org/promise-protect-promote-healing/

[Anomaly]

So much of this still goes on in the Catholic Church with lay and ordained still behaving to protect the Church first, and not protecting victims as a result.   

Bottom line, you have to hold yourself accountable for your choices and actions first. The Church gets bashed because it promotes itself as the divine moral example and divinely endorsed teacher of moral principles.   It is more egregious when the Church behaves in a manner that is fundamentally hypocritical of it's claims to divine intervention and endowment.

[dominicansoul]

I agree.  I just can't wrap my mind around why institutions are quick to protect the predator among them.  It doesn't happen only with the Church, but as mentioned before, several well established institutions behave this way. 

 

Is it because the actions are so fundamentally disgusting, vile and unbelievable that we just want to sweep it all under the rug???

[Shiningstar]

1 hour ago, Anomaly said:

So much of this still goes on in the Catholic Church with lay and ordained still behaving to protect the Church first, and not protecting victims as a result.   

Bottom line, you have to hold yourself accountable for your choices and actions first. The Church gets bashed because it promotes itself as the divine moral example and divinely endorsed teacher of moral principles.   It is more egregious when the Church behaves in a manner that is fundamentally hypocritical of it's claims to divine intervention and endowment.

This is what I've been trying to say, but you stated it very well. 

If an institution claims to be the only one from God, then that undoubtedly sets it above the rest and demands that the actions by its people remain consistent and not hypocritical. Yes, humans are hypocrites, but when you claim that your church is the one true church founded by God himself and that he guides it, it just does not come across so holy when the hierarchy in the same church attempts to cover up sexual abuse of its own children. Take any other institution and consider how you (general) would view it if some huge, dark secret was covered up, and its people consistently committed such horrible crimes against others. I doubt you would be so quick to back it up for any reason. For example, people consistently bash Islam for the actions of some of its adherrants. Why should the Catholic Church be any different?

Edited May 22, 2017 by Shiningstar

[dominicansoul]

 

1 hour ago, Shiningstar said:

This is what I've been trying to say, but you stated it very well. 

If an institution claims to be the only one from God, then that undoubtedly sets it above the rest and demands that the actions by its people remain consistent and not hypocritical. Yes, humans are hypocrites, but when you claim that your church is the one true church founded by God himself and that he guides it, it just does not come across so holy when the hierarchy in the same church attempts to cover up sexual abuse of its own children. Take any other institution and consider how you (general) would view it if some huge, dark secret was covered up, and its people consistently committed such horrible crimes against others. I doubt you would be so quick to back it up for any reason. For example, people consistently bash Islam for the actions of some of its adherrants. Why should the Catholic Church be any different?

 I guess that's the belief of others outside the Church, but coming from a devout Catholic as myself, these scandals have not decreased my Faith at all.  I truly believe it is the Church founded by Christ.  Nothing could rattle that belief in me.  

I've been disappointed in the way people have handled it, but my Faith is intact.  My Faith doesn't depend on whether or not a person sins or scandalizes or does anything.  My Faith is centered on Jesus Christ who is still the Center of the Catholic Church regardless of the sins of church people.  

I look at it this way:  Jesus had 12 apostles.  One of them was a scoundrel, a thief and a betrayer who went out and committed suicide because he despaired of God's mercy.   Would I leave Jesus because of the sins of Judas?  No, never!

"Woe to the world because of scandals. For it must needs be that scandals come: but nevertheless woe to that man by whom the scandal cometh."  These are the words of Jesus.  He knew such scandals would occur.   
 

That said, I really don't blame others for generalizing the entire Church and priests as, like you pointed out, they do Muslims with terrorism.  It doesn't really bother me that people are outraged and hate us because of these horrible deeds.  The people involved deserve the criticism, and I think the Church as a whole has to suffer the consequences of these horrific crimes.  

[hotpink]

1 hour ago, Shiningstar said:

This is what I've been trying to say, but you stated it very well. 

If an institution claims to be the only one from God, then that undoubtedly sets it above the rest and demands that the actions by its people remain consistent and not hypocritical. Yes, humans are hypocrites, but when you claim that your church is the one true church founded by God himself and that he guides it, it just does not come across so holy when the hierarchy in the same church attempts to cover up sexual abuse of its own children. Take any other institution and consider how you (general) would view it if some huge, dark secret was covered up, and its people consistently committed such horrible crimes against others. I doubt you would be so quick to back it up for any reason. For example, people consistently bash Islam for the actions of some of its adherrants. Why should the Catholic Church be any different?

I think this applies anywhere, to anyone we have a special relationship.

At the Uni I work at there is a professor, we'll call him Prof Jacobson.  You look at the college and you'd think, this guy is AMAZING.  He teaches 3 math classes, he volunteered for the student crisis center, his office door is always open.  His classes have a greater pass rate than any other math class, in fact, students who take his foundations course have a higher pass rate in subsequent classes than any other teacher.  Most students come out of his class with a passion and love of math...or just life.  Other professors, even from other departments, came to him for syllabus help, for help dealing with helicopter parents, for general assistance.  He helped quite a few to get on tenure track.  Many students attribute him to staying in college and many more to saving their lives through the crisis center.  He was described as "Professor Pooh"  Basically, universally loved. I guess you could say I had my reservations, but I didn't dislike the guy.

But Professor Jacobson was caught with child porn.  Yet despite this, the student council voted unanimously to keep him on because "he just looked, no one was hurt".  Even the ethics board struggled with it.  In the end, he was fired BUT he is still allowed to volunteer...and he does.

What I don't get, and I'm talking carefully here so as to not break confidences, is why a child rape victim would still be enamored with him.  What it came down to for that person was that Prof Jacobson saved their life.  Prof Jacobson made their major possible.  Prof Jacobson was their friend.  They didn't believe he really did any harm.   What I heard them saying is "he didn't cause me any harm."

I avoid him at all costs, I'm embarrassed and ashamed he's allowed at our uni, even if no kids are here.

Ironically, about the same time, was discovered that my co-worker, (who I found to be a funny guy) who was a school teacher and taught a class, wrote teacher-on-student porn.  I would of kicked him in the unmentionables if I found out before they escorted him off campus.  The funny thing?  He was never super well liked and the fire and brim stone that they rained down on him was astonishing.  He got death threats--not from the HS he taught at--but from the students here.  

Sometimes, I just scratch my head.

3 hours ago, dominicansoul said:

I agree.  I just can't wrap my mind around why institutions are quick to protect the predator among them.  It doesn't happen only with the Church, but as mentioned before, several well established institutions behave this way. 

 

Is it because the actions are so fundamentally disgusting, vile and unbelievable that we just want to sweep it all under the rug???

I actually meant to reply to you, see above post.

 

Shining star- please remember, that while at one point abuse was seen as bad, most places it was not a crime, or at least one that was prosecuted to ANY degree.  Prosecuting abuse, especially sexual abuse, is near impossible now, never mind decades ago.  It doesn't make it right, it's just how it was.  I am glad we're somewhat further along today.

Edited May 22, 2017 by hotpink

[hotpink]

Quote

wrong thread

Edited May 22, 2017 by hotpink