havok579257 Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 I feel like when it comes to american catholics their nationalism is equal to their catholicism in terms of importance. I feel like we as americans talk more about principles that this country was founded on and what we should do based on the founders of this country than what the catholic church teaches. i feel like we as americans get more caught up in doing what the founders of this country would have wanted than what the church teaches. I feel like this country puts nationalism equal to our faith. At the same time I don't get that vibe from catholics of other countries. Maybe I am wrong here when it comes to other countries but I just don't see the same zeal for nationalism in other countries as compared to america. Anyone else agree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peace Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 I wouldn't say equal. I would say above faith in many instances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 There was a very good reason that Americanism was specifically named and condemned by the Church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomaly Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 All *-isms that reject all reason or logic and moral principles is not a good thing for humanity as a whole. Catholicism, Nationalism, capitalism, socialism, patriotism, etc., can coexist if you intelligently temper according to your moral principles and use reasonable logic to apply your principles. Reasonable Catholics wouldn't support an assassination to install the Pope as a ruler of a country... Supposedly... Though some religious fanatics do claim such theological moral principles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amppax Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 I've been reading a lot about this (of sorts). I'd be hesitant to call certain strains of American conservatism, or political philososphy more generally nationalist, though I have no qualms calling Trump that. I'd concur with Nihil and call it Americanism, though that too can be an imprecise term. Other than my quibbles about terminology, I agree, it is certainly something I've noticed, and something that I think is a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peace Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 1 hour ago, Anomaly said: All *-isms that reject all reason or logic and moral principles is not a good thing for humanity as a whole. Atheism being the best example of the above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomaly Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 8 minutes ago, Peace said: Atheism being the best example of the above. Well, maybe your intellectually dishonest "version" of atheism that promulgates an illogical, and unprincipled / non-moral belief. Kind of like lumping all religions as the same as throat cutting ISIS. Nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peace Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 10 minutes ago, Anomaly said: Well, maybe your intellectually dishonest "version" of atheism that promulgates an illogical, and unprincipled / non-moral belief. Kind of like lumping all religions as the same as throat cutting ISIS. Nice. No. Any version of Atheism is a perfect example of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomaly Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 2 minutes ago, Peace said: No. Any version of Atheism is a perfect example of that. Such as Buddhism? LOL. You're perfectly wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peace Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 29 minutes ago, Anomaly said: Such as Buddhism? LOL. You're perfectly wrong. I am not very familiar with Buddhism but to the extent that it denies the existence of God, it is as absurd and illogical as any other form of Atheism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomaly Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Peace said: I am not very familiar with Buddhism but to the extent that it denies the existence of God, it is as absurd and illogical as any other form of Atheism. Oh. So what about being a perfect example of an unprincipled/ non-moral belief system? Obviously, since you know little of it, you aren't applying much intellect to refute whether it is illogical or unreasonable. You may disagree, but without reason, logic, or moral principles, you're just tooting out of what ever end is more noticeable. Which was my point. Thirty points for Hufflepuff. Edited March 20, 2017 by Anomaly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peace Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 1 hour ago, Anomaly said: Oh. So what about being a perfect example of an unprincipled/ non-moral belief system? I wouldn't necessarily say this without studying whatever moral principals it may espouse, and the asserted basis therefore. I took a quick look online and it does not even appear that Buddhism takes a view on the existence of God one way or the other, so I do not think it can be fairly classified as "theistic" or "atheistic" any more so than capitalism or socialism can be considered to be a form of theism or Atheism. 1 hour ago, Anomaly said: Obviously, since you know little of it, you aren't applying much intellect to refute whether it is illogical or unreasonable. 2+2=4. If you deny that 2+2=4, I do not need to know whether you believe that 2+2=5 or 2+2=6 to know that your reasoning is illogical. Similarly, because the existence of God is also proven to any rational mind, I can know by your denial of God's existence that you are irrational. I do not need to know whatever else it is that you believe to know that your reasoning is absurd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomaly Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Peace said: I wouldn't necessarily say this without studying whatever moral principals it may espouse, and the asserted basis therefore. I took a quick look online and it does not even appear that Buddhism takes a view on the existence of God one way or the other, so I do not think it can be fairly classified as "theistic" or "atheistic" any more so than capitalism or socialism can be considered to be a form of theism or Atheism. 2+2=4. If you deny that 2+2=4, I do not need to know whether you believe that 2+2=5 or 2+2=6 to know that your reasoning is illogical. Similarly, because the existence of God is also proven to any rational mind, I can know by your denial of God's existence that you are irrational. I do not need to know whatever else it is that you believe to know that your reasoning is absurd. I think what you meant to say is Faith in God is not against reason, but belief is not entirely by rational logic alone. Twenty more points for Hufflepuff. Edited March 20, 2017 by Anomaly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peace Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 53 minutes ago, Anomaly said: I think what you meant to say is Faith in God is not against reason, but belief is not entirely by rational logic alone. Twenty more points for Hufflepuff. No. The truth of God's existence can be known with certainty from the light of natural reason. That is basic Catholic teaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomaly Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 And if you read further along in your Catechism, it also says that man, given historical context(the Fall) also needs further revelation from God, that, theoretically, there are obstacles that prevent reason alone from that. Read it all, not just enough to be snarky. Your God isn't just a science experiment demonstrating an observable chemical reaction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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