Unsure what to do

[Julie de Sales]

I'm 6 months away from finishing college and free to enter religious life as I have always desired, despite a lot of periods of uncertainty. My dilemma now is where...I have visited some congregations in the past but I don't feel particularly called to any of them. However, there is this one community I have known for a long time and even if I never discerned with them I have participated in their activities (volunteer work, retreats, etc) and we know each other well. The sisters are amazing and I love their way of life, I could totally see myself doing this forever, but the reason I haven't discerned with them is their habit...in my country they wear a habit but in Italy and other countries where they are present it became optional. My fear is that it will soon be the norm and I'm very attached to wearing a habit as a sister. So now I'm wondering: should I enter here or search for another community? I really don't know where to turn and I don't feel like I have the energy to keep searching, but if I choose there sisters will this aspect of their lives bother me even more after joining them? I'm also wondering if I should talk to one of the sisters and explain my fears. 

I'm aware this topic is controversial and I know the habit is not the most important part of religious life, but if you were in my shoes what would you do, especially if it's important for you too?

[Little Flower]

I would recommend finding a good spiritual director and talking it through with him. It's hard to give advice when we don't know you, the community, or the whole situation

That being said, if there is nothing else about the community that is a red flag or bothers you, I wouldn't let that stop you. 

[sr.christinaosf]

Could you talk to one of the Sisters in that community about your concern and see what they say. 

They may have insight into where their community is at on the issue and if there is much danger of this spreading to your country as well.  

[Nunsuch]

First, if the wearing of the habit is optional in other parts of the world, you could still wear it, right? What does it matter to you if others make another decision? I think talking to sisters in the community is also a good suggestion (I would not talk with a male spiritual director about this--what women wear is not a man's business!). 

It might also be worthwhile to talk with some of the sisters who have chosen not to wear the habit. How and why did they come to that decision? I suspect it wasn't casual or without careful discernment. Part of community life is getting along with--and even LOVING--women with whom you don't necessarily agree. It is important to understand where they are coming from. So this might be the first community lesson in learning how to accept difference....

[Luigi]

12 hours ago, Julie de Sales said:

I'm 6 months away from finishing college and free to enter religious life as I have always desired, despite a lot of periods of uncertainty. My dilemma now is where...I have visited some congregations in the past but I don't feel particularly called to any of them. However, there is this one community I have known for a long time and even if I never discerned with them I have participated in their activities (volunteer work, retreats, etc) and we know each other well. The sisters are amazing and I love their way of life, I could totally see myself doing this forever, but the reason I haven't discerned with them is their habit...in my country they wear a habit but in Italy and other countries where they are present it became optional. My fear is that it will soon be the norm and I'm very attached to wearing a habit as a sister. So now I'm wondering: should I enter here or search for another community? I really don't know where to turn and I don't feel like I have the energy to keep searching, but if I choose there sisters will this aspect of their lives bother me even more after joining them? I'm also wondering if I should talk to one of the sisters and explain my fears. 

I'm aware this topic is controversial and I know the habit is not the most important part of religious life, but if you were in my shoes what would you do, especially if it's important for you too?

 

[Amppax]

If it's that much of an issue for you, talk to the sisters about it. Given that it isn't currently an issue, and only might potentially be one, why not go ahead?

[Sister Leticia]

Julie - First of all, it sounds as though, despite knowing the sisters well, you've never "approached" them as a potential interested young woman, which probably means you've never had the opportunity to find out more and have conversations about - for example - how and why they have had this discernment process (about what they wear) and what it means for them. So maybe the first thing you need to do is ask to speak to someone about vocation - whether a sister you know well, or the VD - and begin a dialogue, in which you can get to know them better, from a new perspective. In this context you can raise your anxiety about what they wear. I'm sure you will do it as respectfully and non-judgementally as you did in your opening post, and be open to listening, learning and entering into more dialogue.

But - I know I've said this elsewhere in earlier threads - please centre your discernment on the things that are timeless and fundamental - eg charism, spirituality, life of prayer, core understanding of their service in the church etc. What any congregation wears, or where they are located, how many novices they currently have, or whether they change their names or even the specific mission focus of a particular community house - these things can be attractive and important to discerners, but they might (or might not) be subject to change, in 5, 10 or 20 years' time.

I have, over the years, met a couple of people who entered a particular community because they were attracted to the fact they wore a particular habit, changed their names etc and felt convinced it would remain so forevermore - but it didn't, and they left, disappointed. The core, fundamental aspects of the community didn't hold a strong enough call or attraction for them. I also know someone who entered a different community in spite of the fact that they wore a habit (which didn't really attract her), because she felt more strongly called to their prayer and mission - and she stayed, happily. What was essential was what held her there, through all sorts of ups and downs.

 

9 hours ago, sr.christinaosf said:

They may have insight into where their community is at on the issue and if there is much danger of this spreading to your country as well.

I think a better word to use here would be something more neutral, such as "likelihood" or "possibility".

[Julie de Sales]

1 hour ago, Sister Leticia said:

Julie - First of all, it sounds as though, despite knowing the sisters well, you've never "approached" them as a potential interested young woman, which probably means you've never had the opportunity to find out more and have conversations about - for example - how and why they have had this discernment process (about what they wear) and what it means for them. So maybe the first thing you need to do is ask to speak to someone about vocation - whether a sister you know well, or the VD - and begin a dialogue, in which you can get to know them better, from a new perspective. In this context you can raise your anxiety about what they wear. I'm sure you will do it as respectfully and non-judgementally as you did in your opening post, and be open to listening, learning and entering into more dialogue.

But - I know I've said this elsewhere in earlier threads - please centre your discernment on the things that are timeless and fundamental - eg charism, spirituality, life of prayer, core understanding of their service in the church etc. What any congregation wears, or where they are located, how many novices they currently have, or whether they change their names or even the specific mission focus of a particular community house - these things can be attractive and important to discerners, but they might (or might not) be subject to change, in 5, 10 or 20 years' time.

I have, over the years, met a couple of people who entered a particular community because they were attracted to the fact they wore a particular habit, changed their names etc and felt convinced it would remain so forevermore - but it didn't, and they left, disappointed. The core, fundamental aspects of the community didn't hold a strong enough call or attraction for them. I also know someone who entered a different community in spite of the fact that they wore a habit (which didn't really attract her), because she felt more strongly called to their prayer and mission - and she stayed, happily. What was essential was what held her there, through all sorts of ups and downs.

 

I think a better word to use here would be something more neutral, such as "likelihood" or "possibility".

Thank you for your advice! I did touched this subject briefly with one of the sisters, I asked "out of curiosity" how come there are some differences in what the sisters wear and she told me that it's left to the choice and culture of the country the sisters live in. For example, where I live (Eastern Europe) they wear a more traditional habit because that's the norm here, but in India they wear a simple sari and in Latin America a skirt and a blouse/shirt because nuns are not well viewed in that part of the world (I don't know what that means, maybe for safety reasons). And in regards to the veil, she said some sisters find it uncomfortable. Anyway, I guess I could still wear a habit if I want and for sure I will discuss it more openly if I will take the decision to join them.

The funny thing is that even if the idea of wearing a habit is so attractive to me, I always thought I will struggle with wearing a full habit in public, not because I would be ashamed of being a sister, but because I would draw attention to myself. So maybe their way of going about this suits me better.  And it's true, you don't know what could happen in 30 years down the road...

[Sister Marie]

Just for another perspective... at one point I felt very strongly in favor of wearing a habit.  I couldn't ever have considered a circumstance when I wouldn't want to wear some kind of distinctive religious garb until I actually lived religious life. 

In ministry, I realized that I would rather be an effective minister than wear a certain thing.  What I mean is that if the culture or nature of my ministry would be negatively affected by the wearing of the habit, I would gladly take it off with no feelings of guilty sadness.

In community life, I realized I would rather trust the voice of the Holy Spirit in community decisions than hold fast to my own preferences.

Neither of these realizations could have come without lived experience of community and ministry.  I'm grateful that they came the way they did.  While I'm happy to wear distinctive religious garb, I feel free and graced to see how God might have another plan as my life moves forward.  I entered religious life to grow in holiness and to help others do the same.  Everything else hinges upon this.  There are times when the habit is not helpful for evangelization, ministry, or community... even if it is painful, we are meant to put these things before our own preferences.

I don't know if this is helpful at all but I think it's important to hear some open and honest reflection one on the topic you opened.  May God bless you in your discernment.

[Postulant Christina]

I would check to see if they are an LCWR or CMSWR community, CMSWR communities are remaining faithful to the magisterium and are not promoting radical feminism. Unfortunately many LCWR communities have gone off the deep end and are not doing what they need to do to survive and promote vocations nor do they care. You might want to inquire about this with a spiritual director as mentioned in a previous post.

[McM RSCJ]

Postulant Christina,

I understand finding a CMSWR community was a very high priority for you in responding to God's call to Religious Life.  

I don't, however, agree with your judgment that "many LCWR communities have gone off the deep end and not doing what they need to do to survive and promote vocations nor do they care."  As an engaged and glad member of an LCWR community, I know I am called to follow Jesus Christ as closely as possible and to respond to his apostolic call in the Church and in the world.  

We do emphasize vocation promotion, but I don't happen to think focusing on what my Order needs to do to survive is a higher priority than that, but of course I hope others may be drawn to living the Charism I treasure so much.    

May I gently suggest you write about what you deeply value in your Community, but without disparaging other approaches to religious life?   I hope your Postulancy is a wonderful time of growth and deepening in your vocation.  

 

 

 

 

[Sister Marie]

3 hours ago, Postulant Christina said:

I would check to see if they are an LCWR or CMSWR community, CMSWR communities are remaining faithful to the magisterium and are not promoting radical feminism. Unfortunately many LCWR communities have gone off the deep end and are not doing what they need to do to survive and promote vocations nor do they care. You might want to inquire about this with a spiritual director as mentioned in a previous post.

 

With the exception of the great suggestion to see a spiritual direction, all of this is incorrect information.  

Christina, I hope this isn't the way your community speaks about other religious because it shows a lack of charity and a certain elitism that isn't fitting for religious.  I don't think the "we are better and more faithful than they are" line should ever be a part of the conversation about religious life.  We should never be speaking about one another like this.  It is fine to have different preferences based on your community's particular living of religious life but there is no need to speak about other faithful religious like this.  

I belong to a community which wears a habit, ministers communally in a traditional work of women religious, live together in a convent with the Blessed Sacrament present in our Chapel, pray with one another on a daily basis, attend Mass each day, continue to have entrants to our community, AND belong to the LCWR.  Nothing of what you wrote above describes my experience of religious life.  

Communities have different ways of living and ministering because they have different charisms, different ministries, different needs - not because one is better than the other.  I wouldn't want to live the way I see some other communities living but it isn't because they are bad.  It's because I grew up in a different kind of religious life and I like the way my community does things.  God calls us to all different things... but all good.   Now I find it interesting to talk to other religious and hear about their experiences and how they live - I always learn something new.  I see it as an opportunity, not an infidelity when others do things differently than we do.

 I do hope that as you continue in religious life and learn more you can appreciate the beauty in the variety of ways religious life can be lived as a gift of the Holy Spirit in the hearts of individuals and different communities.  You may have to work with some of the religious you spoke about at some point.  Your community will change at some point (we all do!) and you will have to accept those changes with some openness even if you don't always agree.  Be open during this time of continued discernment and growth.  I'm sure the Lord has many good things in store for you... but it can be hard to see them if you aren't open. (I'm speaking as one with experience in this area!)

 

[LittleDiana]

To talk about it with the sisters is a great idea. The real "problem" is not if they don't wear a habit, but why they do not wear one. Sometimes it is the way Sister Marie says, but I know some places in which the habit is nominally optional, but when you talk to the sisters you discover that it is discouraged because it is seen as a way of showing off. I think the habit is important not just for aesthetic reasons, or for everyone to know that you are a sister (People usually notice it anyways). 

I would like to wear a habit because physical reminders are very helpful for me (If I have a crucifix on my desk I am less tempted to procrastinate, or if I wear a medal and see it I'm less prone to get distracted during a lecture) and as I have a hard time matching clothes and making my hair look decent (I know that "bad veil days" exist, but anyways), I think it would spare me a significant amount of time and worry. As I don't have the actual experience of wearing a habit I don't know if it really is that way, it's only a suposition. Because of this, wearing a habit is more important for me that taking a religious name, even if I think that the last is a beautiful thing.

I wouldn't mind wearing a habit if it were optional and the sisters who decide not to wear it were ok with others wearing it. But this kind of information you can get only if you ask for it.

[Nunsuch]

1 hour ago, LittleDiana said:

To talk about it with the sisters is a great idea. The real "problem" is not if they don't wear a habit, but why they do not wear one. Sometimes it is the way Sister Marie says, but I know some places in which the habit is nominally optional, but when you talk to the sisters you discover that it is discouraged because it is seen as a way of showing off. I think the habit is important not just for aesthetic reasons, or for everyone to know that you are a sister (People usually notice it anyways). 

I would like to wear a habit because physical reminders are very helpful for me (If I have a crucifix on my desk I am less tempted to procrastinate, or if I wear a medal and see it I'm less prone to get distracted during a lecture) and as I have a hard time matching clothes and making my hair look decent (I know that "bad veil days" exist, but anyways), I think it would spare me a significant amount of time and worry. As I don't have the actual experience of wearing a habit I don't know if it really is that way, it's only a suposition. Because of this, wearing a habit is more important for me that taking a religious name, even if I think that the last is a beautiful thing.

I wouldn't mind wearing a habit if it were optional and the sisters who decide not to wear it were ok with others wearing it. But this kind of information you can get only if you ask for it.

You talk about why wearing a habit is important for you, but religious life is a life of self-giving and service. It really is not all about you, is it? It is so secondary to what religious life is all about. I know and admire some sisters who wear a habit and some who do not. I trust that their devotion and dedication is sincere, and that they are not committing themselves to something superficial. I do not know a SINGLE sister who doesn't wear a habit because they see it as "showing off." Perhaps we live in different worlds, but to think that people understand religious life in such terms is really rather disappointing.

[Feankie]

I guess it bothers me to hear some posters talk about the habit so flippantly.Bad veil days.....really!?  I also don't believe "the problem is why sisters don't wear habits."  Yes, some get a choice....and that choice is most probably deeply personal.  Most don't have a choice (at least at present) and they know that going in.

Of all the nuns/sisters I know (and that list is v e r y long) those who do wear the Holy Habit respect it and cherish it.  It is not simply a matter of convenience as in not having to worry about what to wear each day much like a student in parochial school.  And those who wear secular clothes or modified habits, whether they have a choice or not, are fine with that.  It comes down to community custom and obedience, not to personal preference.  And the wearing of the habit to prevent worrying and wasting time is a bit "off" IMHO.  Religious life is NOT about the convenience/preference of the individual, now is it? The charism/apostolate  of the Congregation should be what compels you to discern with them.  It's not the externals that matter so much.   Take a few minutes and rethink this please.  

We've debated the habit topic in other threads to the point of almost exhausting the subject.  After a while it just becomes a circular argument....sigh.

Edited March 15, 2017 by Francis Clare