Amazing Day at the Women's March

[Ash Wednesday]

Even putting aside their pro-choice platform -- some of the signs, attire and slogans at the Women's March were downright vulgar and I find it offensive that anyone would call such a march "God-filled."

[dUSt]

@McM RSCJ Can you please let us know your stance on abortion and gay marriage?

[Peace]

1 hour ago, dUSt said:

@McM RSCJ Can you please let us know your stance on abortion and gay marriage?

Whoa. This is the most scandalous inquiry since the dubia. Will the Church stand?!

[McM RSCJ]

To Dust:

My beliefs about abortion and gay marriage are those of the Church.

Now, may I ask why you are asking me this?  (It felt like an attack to me, but maybe you didn't mean it that way?)

I and many other women religious across the country (and, now I know, around the world) participated in these marches and every report I have seen us has focused on the joy and solidarity and the sense that God is working among us.  "Lo!  I am doing something new.  Can you not perceive it?"  The apostolic vocation is to be sent and to find God in all things and, as Pope Francis reminds us in The Joy of the Gospels, to learn from what society is trying to reveal about God's action to the Church.  Discernment. . . . Paying prayerful attention to the signs of the times. . . .

People on this website who did not participate in the marches are nevertheless certain it was vulgar and offensive and focused only on anti-abortion. But they weren't there.  And that was not my experience.

Now if the point of this inquiry about my beliefs is to tell me I should not post on this website anymore, please just say so. 

(I had been wondering if that were how I was supposed to interpret the remark of the Mediator that she had hoped my post would sink into obscurity.  I couldn't tell if that were humorous sarcasm or expression of a shared judgment that my views are not welcome here. )

We are taught the twelve fruits of the Spirit are Charity, Joy, Peace, Patience and so on.   Well, I experienced some of those fruits during the March.  And the next day after Mass in the parish when so many of us, men and women, who did not even all know one another, spontaneously just stood outside the Church and talked about how much the previous day had meant to us.  And it has been the same in the workplace and classrooms yesterday and today. . . .

Edited January 25, 2017 by McM RSCJ
errors

[Anomaly]

Not sure if you're overly defensive or just sanctimonious  but hey, you're not mousey.

dUSt is highly tolerant of any opinion.  You wouldn't be asked to leave. He is sensitive to posters who represent themselves to be Catholic but espouse positions that are in conflict with the Church.  I could argue for abortion and gay marriage and be welcomed to debate and defend my opinion. You likely would have been given a phishy label, but certainly not directions to the exit if you supported them too.  

[Ash Wednesday]

2 hours ago, McM RSCJ said:

People on this website who did not participate in the marches are nevertheless certain it was vulgar and offensive and focused only on anti-abortion. But they weren't there.  And that was not my experience.

I did not say the entire march was vulgar and offensive. But there was vulgarity and offensive messages that were a part of it (and we only had to watch the news to know this without being there), hence that and their pro-choice platform is why I object to it as being described as "God-filled."

 

[Peace]

2 hours ago, McM RSCJ said:

To Dust:

My beliefs about abortion and gay marriage are those of the Church.

Now, may I ask why you are asking me this?  (It felt like an attack to me, but maybe you didn't mean it that way?)

I and many other women religious across the country (and, now I know, around the world) participated in these marches and every report I have seen us has focused on the joy and solidarity and the sense that God is working among us.  "Lo!  I am doing something new.  Can you not perceive it?"  The apostolic vocation is to be sent and to find God in all things and, as Pope Francis reminds us in The Joy of the Gospels, to learn from what society is trying to reveal about God's action to the Church.  Discernment. . . . Paying prayerful attention to the signs of the times. . . .

People on this website who did not participate in the marches are nevertheless certain it was vulgar and offensive and focused only on anti-abortion. But they weren't there.  And that was not my experience.

Now if the point of this inquiry about my beliefs is to tell me I should not post on this website anymore, please just say so. 

(I had been wondering if that were how I was supposed to interpret the remark of the Mediator that she had hoped my post would sink into obscurity.  I couldn't tell if that were humorous sarcasm or expression of a shared judgment that my views are not welcome here. )

We are taught the twelve fruits of the Spirit are Charity, Joy, Peace, Patience and so on.   Well, I experienced some of those fruits during the March.  And the next day after Mass in the parish when so many of us, men and women, who did not even all know one another, spontaneously just stood outside the Church and talked about how much the previous day had meant to us.  And it has been the same in the workplace and classrooms yesterday and today. . . .

I at least appreciate the perspective that you bring to the site. That is not to say that I necessarily agree with you.

[havok579257]

3 hours ago, McM RSCJ said:

To Dust:

My beliefs about abortion and gay marriage are those of the Church.

Now, may I ask why you are asking me this?  (It felt like an attack to me, but maybe you didn't mean it that way?)

I and many other women religious across the country (and, now I know, around the world) participated in these marches and every report I have seen us has focused on the joy and solidarity and the sense that God is working among us.  "Lo!  I am doing something new.  Can you not perceive it?"  The apostolic vocation is to be sent and to find God in all things and, as Pope Francis reminds us in The Joy of the Gospels, to learn from what society is trying to reveal about God's action to the Church.  Discernment. . . . Paying prayerful attention to the signs of the times. . . .

People on this website who did not participate in the marches are nevertheless certain it was vulgar and offensive and focused only on anti-abortion. But they weren't there.  And that was not my experience.

Now if the point of this inquiry about my beliefs is to tell me I should not post on this website anymore, please just say so. 

(I had been wondering if that were how I was supposed to interpret the remark of the Mediator that she had hoped my post would sink into obscurity.  I couldn't tell if that were humorous sarcasm or expression of a shared judgment that my views are not welcome here. )

We are taught the twelve fruits of the Spirit are Charity, Joy, Peace, Patience and so on.   Well, I experienced some of those fruits during the March.  And the next day after Mass in the parish when so many of us, men and women, who did not even all know one another, spontaneously just stood outside the Church and talked about how much the previous day had meant to us.  And it has been the same in the workplace and classrooms yesterday and today. . . .

I think the issue people are having with this is you represent the church.  You represent all the things that the church preaches and teaches.  So what you do does reflect on the church.  So with that said we know for a fact (there is video of this, cnn aired some of the speches from the womens march live.  I know I watched one of them.) that the speakers/leaders of the march were pushing and protesting that Donald Trump not take a women's right to abortion away.  That he not take away government funding to planned parenthood which is the biggest abortion provider in the world.  Not to mention the leaders telling pro life women they are not welcome at the march because you can't be for women's rights unless your for the right to having an abortion.  So this was being pushed by the march's leaders/speakers.  This was one of their agenda's.  Sure they had other agenda's, but this was a major one.  So to see someone so closely tied to the church at a rally supporting these things is disheartening.  I am sure you would feel no different yourself if a priest went to a movement about men's rights and one of the things that was being promoted by the leaders/speakers was that we should remove the ability for women to vote.  Sure the rest of the platform could be for solidarity for men, equality for men in an every changing world and so on.  Yes, some of these reasons are good and noble but I would wager a guess that you would be shocked that a priest would be at a rally that the leaders/speakers were pushing for women to lose their ability to vote.  Would you be ok if when you asked a priest about his inolvement in this march he told you it was about unity and all these others things that are good and just ignored the fact that the leaders/speakers pushed for the right for women to vote be removed?

 

No matter what good you felt from the march or what good things the march talked about it was still promoted by the leaders/speakers that one of their platforms was that they did not want Trump to take away a women's right to have abortions.  Its a fact that they promoted this during the march.  There is no arguing about this.  So it comes down to asking, how do you as a women of the church, a women who the public ties to the church, join and be in support of something that supports abortion?  You said you support the church's position on abortion, so how do you square your support for a march that, that was one of their big issues?  We are not talking about having to vote between two pro abortion candidates.  We are talking about freely joining and supporting a march that one of its big issues was Trump not taking away a women's right to abortion.  So the question is, how do you square your support for it when their position is so against church teaching and God's law?

[Norseman82]

4 hours ago, McM RSCJ said:

To Dust:

My beliefs about abortion and gay marriage are those of the Church.

Now, may I ask why you are asking me this?  (It felt like an attack to me, but maybe you didn't mean it that way?)

I and many other women religious across the country (and, now I know, around the world) participated in these marches and every report I have seen us has focused on the joy and solidarity and the sense that God is working among us.  "Lo!  I am doing something new.  Can you not perceive it?"  The apostolic vocation is to be sent and to find God in all things and, as Pope Francis reminds us in The Joy of the Gospels, to learn from what society is trying to reveal about God's action to the Church.  Discernment. . . . Paying prayerful attention to the signs of the times. . . .

People on this website who did not participate in the marches are nevertheless certain it was vulgar and offensive and focused only on anti-abortion. But they weren't there.  And that was not my experience.

Now if the point of this inquiry about my beliefs is to tell me I should not post on this website anymore, please just say so.

(I had been wondering if that were how I was supposed to interpret the remark of the Mediator that she had hoped my post would sink into obscurity.  I couldn't tell if that were humorous sarcasm or expression of a shared judgment that my views are not welcome here. )

We are taught the twelve fruits of the Spirit are Charity, Joy, Peace, Patience and so on.   Well, I experienced some of those fruits during the March.  And the next day after Mass in the parish when so many of us, men and women, who did not even all know one another, spontaneously just stood outside the Church and talked about how much the previous day had meant to us.  And it has been the same in the workplace and classrooms yesterday and today. . . .

Considering what Hillary said about people needing to change their religious views, the revelations that people in the Clinton campaign wanted to "instill a springtime in the Catholic Church" (codeword for changing it sviews on moral isues), and the general hostility of the previous administration to our religion by pushing the contraception mandate, what you did was the equivalent of a rabbi attending and praising a Nuremberg rally in the 1930s.

Edited January 25, 2017 by Norseman82

[dUSt]

@McM RSCJ I'm happy that you agree with the church. The people above me have expressed my confusion better than I could have.

[Peace]

12 hours ago, havok579257 said:

No matter what good you felt from the march or what good things the march talked about it was still promoted by the leaders/speakers that one of their platforms was that they did not want Trump to take away a women's right to have abortions.  Its a fact that they promoted this during the march.  There is no arguing about this.  So it comes down to asking, how do you as a women of the church, a women who the public ties to the church, join and be in support of something that supports abortion?  You said you support the church's position on abortion, so how do you square your support for a march that, that was one of their big issues?  We are not talking about having to vote between two pro abortion candidates.  We are talking about freely joining and supporting a march that one of its big issues was Trump not taking away a women's right to abortion.  So the question is, how do you square your support for it when their position is so against church teaching and God's law?

Plenty of people in this thread have voted for Trump or advocated voting for Trump. There are a few technical distinctions that one could draw but in principle I do not see how her attendance at the women's march is different than people here who have voted for Trump or advocated voting for him.

She appears to have decided to attend the women's march because she felt that there were good things about the march and good reasons to participate despite the bad things about the march (e.g. the various support it may lend to the pro-choice position).

Several priests at my parish openly told me that they support Trump and were planning to vote for Trump. Does that not then mean that we should all be shocked and condemn them for openly associating themselves with a man who brags about walking up to women and "grabbing them by the p***y" and the numerous other moral flaws that Trump has? Those priests certainly could have voted for another candidate without those flaws, such as the ASP candidate for example. But they made a choice to vote for someone with serious problems because they believed that there were nevertheless good reasons for doing so. Has not everyone here made similar choices at some point?

I personally doubt that I would have chosen to attend the women's march for some of its negative affiliation with the pro-choice movement, but there are positive things about the women's march and I think that it is up to each person to make the decision to participate or not participate for himself. I think it is a bit hypocritical for so many people to jump on her case when many of us make essentially the same type of decisions in our own lives.

Edited January 25, 2017 by Peace

[Papist]

3 hours ago, Peace said:

Plenty of people in this thread have voted for Trump or advocated voting for Trump. There are a few technical distinctions that one could draw but in principle I do not see how her attendance at the women's march is different than people here who have voted for Trump or advocated voting for him.

She appears to have decided to attend the women's march because she felt that there were good things about the march and good reasons to participate despite the bad things about the march (e.g. the various support it may lend to the pro-choice position).

Several priests at my parish openly told me that they support Trump and were planning to vote for Trump. Does that not then mean that we should all be shocked and condemn them for openly associating themselves with a man who brags about walking up to women and "grabbing them by the p***y" and the numerous other moral flaws that Trump has? Those priests certainly could have voted for another candidate without those flaws, such as the ASP candidate for example. But they made a choice to vote for someone with serious problems because they believed that there were nevertheless good reasons for doing so. Has not everyone here made similar choices at some point?

I personally doubt that I would have chosen to attend the women's march for some of its negative affiliation with the pro-choice movement, but there are positive things about the women's march and I think that it is up to each person to make the decision to participate or not participate for himself. I think it is a bit hypocritical for so many people to jump on her case when many of us make essentially the same type of decisions in our own lives.

The OP made a point to broadcast how amazing the Women's March was, and representing RSCJ (rscj.org).  I believe it fair to comment on the OP regardless how others here have commented on other threads, regardless of how priests have voted at your parish, and regardless of any moral flaws of Trump.  If fact, regardless of anything.   

[Peace]

1 hour ago, Papist said:

The OP made a point to broadcast how amazing the Women's March was, and representing RSCJ (rscj.org).  I believe it fair to comment on the OP regardless how others here have commented on other threads, regardless of how priests have voted at your parish, and regardless of any moral flaws of Trump.  If fact, regardless of anything.   

And likewise I believe it fair to point out your hypocrisy. Good day to you.

[KnightofChrist]

4 minutes ago, Peace said:

And likewise I believe it fair to point out your hypocrisy. Good day to you.

It's really too bad that you are not at least equal in the level your criticisms in this thread. Before the election as well as now you are far more passionate and critical (now clearly judgemental as well) of those of us that defended voting for 'Trump who said vulgar things' than other groups. Your criticisms of Catholics defending attendance at 'Pro-child extermination + good things marches' is barely criticism and is really rather short and weak, in comparison. You could still point out the hypocrisy you see without being as unbalanced in your criticisms.

 

[Peace]

43 minutes ago, KnightofChrist said:

It's really too bad that you are not at least equal in the level your criticisms in this thread. Before the election as well as now you are far more passionate and critical (now clearly judgemental as well) of those of us that defended voting for 'Trump who said vulgar things' than other groups. Your criticisms of Catholics defending attendance at 'Pro-child extermination + good things marches' is barely criticism and is really rather short and weak, in comparison. You could still point out the hypocrisy you see without being as unbalanced in your criticisms.

 

Perhaps, but that is not how I remember it. Or perhaps you just misread the point I wanted to make then.

As I remember that whole thread got nasty when I and others suggested that Clinton might be the lesser evil, and we received criticism notwithstanding the fact that we contemplated voting for her despite her flaws, not because of them. I recall my point there being that people who voted for Trump despite his failings are free to do so according to their consciences, but if you get all high and mighty and start criticizing other people as selling out for voting for a candidate like Hillary because of her flaws, then you should be subject to the same type of criticisms for voting for someone who has plenty of his own flaws. My main beef there was with Trump voters who would criticize other people for voting for other candidates (be it Hillary or whoever), when they were essentially doing the same thing themselves by voting for Trump (that is, attempting to vote for the perceived lesser evil among the two).

I am not gonna sit here and pretend that I didn't throw around plenty of Trump insults, but I recall most of them being used as a defense when people were criticizing my voting choices.