Crux (taking the Catholic pulse)" Pope Francis: 'd**n the torpedoes?'

[BarbTherese]

John L Allen Jnr of "Crux" (taking the Catholic pulse) https://cruxnow.com/analysis/2017/01/11/holidays-caught-pope-francis-beaver dam-torpedoes-mood/  (Originally reported through Catholic Culture website http://www.catholicculture.org/commentary/the-city-gates.cfm?id=1398 )

Quite a few "perhaps", "maybe" etc in the article i.e. what is probably relatively informed guesswork I suspect, but an interesting commentary nonetheless including on Pope Francis and his "style" as well.

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 John Allen of Crux takes a somewhat more sanguine view of the Pope’s management , but he too notices that the Holy Father has made no effort to ease the concerns of his critics. It’s not government-by-consensus so much as a “beaver dam-the-torpedoes” approach, Allen remarks.

[Guest]

"I’d rather be a hypocrite than a heretic. A hypocrite knows the truth but fails to live by it. A heretic changes the truth according to how he lives."--Fr. Dwight Longenecker~                Not directed at Pope Francis but it's relevant. 

Edited January 16, 2017 by Guest

[Guest]

I think of a hypocrite as one who lays down the law, but does not live by it (do as I say not as I do). 

A heretic I think of as one who knows what the truth is but denies that it is truth for his or her own purposes.  Or it has occurred to me that a heretic would be one who claimed to be Catholic but denied the Faith or Morals of The Church.  If you deny one article of Faith, you have denied them all since it is to indirectly deny the Infallibility of The Pope on all Faith and Morals.  If The Church is wrong in one article of Faith or Morals, then She could be wrong in more or even all of them.

Frankly, God willing with His Grace, I hope I will be none of the above.

[Papist]

Who am I to judge?

[Amppax]

I think it's discouraging when even Crux is posting things of this nature. We now have articles from publications across the board (from the Remnant on one side, to Crux on the other) which all are basically saying similar things, albeit with slightly different interpretations. At a certain point either you say they're all wrong, or you start praying much harder for our Holy Father and the cardinals. 

Edited January 16, 2017 by Amppax

[Nihil Obstat]

11 minutes ago, Amppax said:

I think it's discouraging when even Crux is posting things of this nature. We now have articles from publications across the board (from the Remnant on one side, to Crux on the other) which all are basically saying similar things, albeit with slightly different interpretations. At a certain point either you say they're all wrong, or you start praying much harder for our Holy Father and the cardinals. 

No Catholic who has been paying attention can honestly say that this is business as usual. We live in a dangerous time. More dangerous, I think, than we can apprehend at the moment.

[Guest]

Pope Francis isn't the False Prophet (Anti-Pope) from Revelations but Bishop Sheen and a bunch of Protestant Scholars say that a Anti-Pope will be the False prophet from revelations that will assist the Antichrist. It's good to see how much criticism is allowed and expected when a Pope is in error. It will prepare us for when the False Prophet (Anti-Pope) and the Antichrist arrive and combine all the religions. The Bible says even the elect will be deceived. Who knows when it will be. Maybe 100 years from now or 10. Maybe 200 years or 20. 

Revelation 2:7 ►

Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.

Edited January 16, 2017 by Guest

[Guest]

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start praying much harder for our Holy Father and the cardinals.

The current confusions and misunderstandings re Amoris Laetitia certainly are an important issue in The Church.  Various commentaries, source dependant, help me to form my own position and why on an issue.  They also can help to understand where the issue might be/could be overall, the general drift of things.

I think Amoris Laetitia has been the vehicle for all sorts of problems with Pope Francis on other issues.  Sort of feeding added fuel to the fire.

It is a very important fact to me that Pope Francis is our Holy Father validly elected in a papal conclave under the guidance of The Holy Spirit.  A very important fact indeed.  If Pope Francis is absolutely wrong, then in the Doctrine of Divine Providence, The Lord has good reasons for permitting it.  To me at this point, it is a very big "if".  If one is not in the state of mortal sin, should one be precluded from Holy Communion?

There are more words of Jesus to ponder in the issue amongst quite a few other quotes from Jesus that are relevant:

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Matthew Ch7: ""Stop judging, that you may not be judged. For as you judge, so will you be judged, and the measure with which you measure will be measured out to you. Why do you notice the splinter in your brother's eye, but do not perceive the wooden beam in your own eye?

How can you say to your brother, 'Let me remove that splinter from your eye,' while the wooden beam is in your eye?You hypocrite, ³ remove the wooden beam from your eye first; then you will see clearly to remove the splinter from your brother's eye.

 

 

3 hours ago, Papist said:

Who am I to judge?

Precisely

A point of both contention and confusion to me is that over the centuries, The Church has developed so many rules and regulations that each of the 'specialties' in The Church require specially trained experts in each of the fields (canon lawyer, moral theologian, spiritual theology, scripture scholar etc.)  Moral Theology along with Canon Law apparently can be a minefield, in other words, one regulation whatever can be cancelled out, modified or not apply by something else, i.e. another regulation or whatever somewhere else.  And for me, some hair splitting as well.

Where does all this leave the ordinary every day, especially stressed out in modern life families short of money Catholic - and often confused on confusing points of moral theology which is a prime factor in decision making and living out their earthly life?  Confused.  I think that The Lord understands such confusion and why it exists better than any other human being whatsoever ever could.  He understands confusion etc. intimately as no other - from His Divine Infallibility and Merciful Heart.

Now and then my prayer to Jesus is: "I thank You Lord, that you will judge me, not some fellow human being."

I do not think Amoris Laetitia is the only point of confusion - it has become a vehicle for various kinds of obsessions, hang ups and bias in some direction or other, with rationalisation in an attempt to justify .........sometimes intelligent intellectual type rationalisations.  We all, I think, present our thoughts on a matter with rationalisations or justifications.  Over and above that is the truth of matters and I might be wrong or right at some point - the search is for truth and Truth. God is Truth and all truth points and leads towards Truth.  What is not truth points away and leads away from Truth and Our God Who Is Truth, Ultimate Truth.

[Guest]

 “The False Prophet will have a religion without a cross. A religion without a world to come. A religion to destroy religions. There will be a counterfeit church. Christ’s Church [the Catholic Church] will be one. And the False Prophet will create the other. The false church will be worldly ecumenical, and global. It will be a loose federation of churches. And religions forming some type of global association. A world parliament of churches. It will be emptied of all divine content and will be the mystical body of the Antichrist. The mystical body on earth today will have its Judas Iscariot and he will be the false prophet. Satan will recruit him from among our bishops.” - Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

Edited January 16, 2017 by Guest

[Nihil Obstat]

A bad pope, even a horrifically bad pope, could be allowed by God for the purpose of bringing hidden errors into the light.

I do not have any doubt that Pope Francis is the validly elected Pope. No Catholic need believe that his election, nor his subsequent statements and writings thus far, are contained in the active will of God.

[Guest]

47 minutes ago, Nihil Obstat said:

A bad pope, even a horrifically bad pope, could be allowed by God for the purpose of bringing hidden errors into the light.

I do not have any doubt that Pope Francis is the validly elected Pope. No Catholic need believe that his election, nor his subsequent statements and writings thus far, are contained in the active will of God.

I agree and concisely stated.

In the Doctrine of Divine Providence, as laid out in the CCC, The Will of God has two aspects: His Direct or Active Will in every good great or small - and His Permissive Will which comes about by God's Permission only in every evil of any kind, great or small.  If you read the Book of Job (excellent read) in the opening paragraphs, Satan must ask God's Permission to persecute Job. 

Some do think of embracing Divine Providence in one's life is a passivity.  Understanding the Doctrine of Divine Providence and embracing it into one's journey is most certainly not passive or passivity - rather anything but.  The CCC explains it well.  There are other criticisms of the Doctrine too,.

The entire Doctrine explained in the CCC can be found here CCC on The Doctrine of Divine Providence (scroll down to "V God Carries Out HIs Divine Plan: Divine Providence")
 

 

[Nihil Obstat]

Some Catholics seem to think that the results of a papal conclave are necessarily part of the active will of God. I do not know where such a notion came from.