Daughters of Mary, Israel's Hope out of Tulsa

[DameAgnes]

She's been trying to get a foothold on establishing a new order for a very, very long time, now. http://okietraditionalist.blogspot.com/2016/12/newly-ordained-tulsa-bishop-konderla.html

[krissylou]

Weren't they originally founded in St. Louis and then after Cardinal Burke left the new bishop made them leave?

This is starting to look like a trend ...

[Kateri89]

I'd love for them to settle in my diocese.  We need more religious here both for their prayers and simple witness just by being present.

[lanpingpug]

It seems such a shame they will have to move somewhere else considering they weren't founded too long ago. 

[katherineH]

This is sad news indeed.  As someone who lives in Oklahoma, I can say that we desperately need religious sisters.  The state is only 6% Catholic and there are very few religious communities attracting new members.  Considering the Bishop's previous statements on the importance of witness and evangelization, this decision is confounding.  All I can do is trust that there was more going on behind the scenes that we didn't know about that influenced this decision. 

[beatitude]

16 hours ago, katherineH said:

This is sad news indeed.  As someone who lives in Oklahoma, I can say that we desperately need religious sisters.  The state is only 6% Catholic and there are very few religious communities attracting new members.  Considering the Bishop's previous statements on the importance of witness and evangelization, this decision is confounding.  All I can do is trust that there was more going on behind the scenes that we didn't know about that influenced this decision. 

To be honest, I have always been quite cautious about this community. I had a friend who discerned with them and I don't want to say too much so as not to violate her privacy or theirs, but I can point to what is publicly visible: the community has changed its name back and forth a couple of times; it started out with a very weakly defined apostolate ("to flood the streets with holy habits") that now seems to have changed to family ministry in parishes; the founder received her formation with the Visitandines and originally imagined the community as Salesian in spirituality, but it's now Benedictine; and so on. To Mother Miriam's credit, all this has been very clear and open, and transparency suggests sincerity. But however sincere she might be, I would be put off discerning with a community that doesn't yet seem to have a coherent sense of itself and its place in the Church - and it may well be just me, but when I look at their website, I'm still not getting that clear sense.

Looking back on the Church's history, the majority of foundations have never taken root. There are also communities that have existed for a comparatively short while and then faded out. Finally, it's rare even for a new foundation that does flourish not to have their struggles at the beginning. So it shouldn't be too surprising that this is happening. If God wants these sisters to stay and flourish, they will stay and flourish; and if not, at least they tried. Effort can be just as much of a witness as 'success', which the Lord may define very differently from us.

 

[DameAgnes]

Mother Miriam learned about the religious life with the Visitation Nuns and then spent time with Benedictines in France. I too think she is sincere and transparent but wonder if she wasn't brought into her vows too quickly, before she really was settled and clear about her charism. I admire her a lot but am not distressed to hear of this latest. The Holy Spirit is as work. Sometimes that can seem confusing and disappointing. I'm sure eventually things will become clear. 

[Amppax]

As noted on the blog above, this is the second more "traditional" order which the new bishop has asked to leave the diocese. The other is the Doloran Fathers, an order of exorcist priests founded by the formerly FSSP Fr. Chad Ripperger. I believe they are moving to the Archdiocese of Denver, though that has not been officially confirmed. 

Additionally, Bishop Konderla has reversed several other practices of his predecessor, such as mass ad orientem and Sunday Vespers in the Cathedral parish. 

[John Paul]

Does she dress differently from her nuns?

 

[katherineH]

On ‎1‎/‎18‎/‎2017 at 10:39 AM, beatitude said:

To be honest, I have always been quite cautious about this community. I had a friend who discerned with them and I don't want to say too much so as not to violate her privacy or theirs, but I can point to what is publicly visible: the community has changed its name back and forth a couple of times; it started out with a very weakly defined apostolate ("to flood the streets with holy habits") that now seems to have changed to family ministry in parishes; the founder received her formation with the Visitandines and originally imagined the community as Salesian in spirituality, but it's now Benedictine; and so on. To Mother Miriam's credit, all this has been very clear and open, and transparency suggests sincerity. But however sincere she might be, I would be put off discerning with a community that doesn't yet seem to have a coherent sense of itself and its place in the Church - and it may well be just me, but when I look at their website, I'm still not getting that clear sense.

Looking back on the Church's history, the majority of foundations have never taken root. There are also communities that have existed for a comparatively short while and then faded out. Finally, it's rare even for a new foundation that does flourish not to have their struggles at the beginning. So it shouldn't be too surprising that this is happening. If God wants these sisters to stay and flourish, they will stay and flourish; and if not, at least they tried. Effort can be just as much of a witness as 'success', which the Lord may define very differently from us.

 

Thank you for the clarity.  A close friend who works for the archdiocese suggested that it may be due to the fact that they are a diocesan order but their strict adherence to the Latin Mass had become a barrier to full participation in the diocese.  I could see this particularly for the priestly order.  Doesn't make much sense for a diocesan priestly order to not have its priests celebrate Mass with the Bishop...

[Sponsa-Christi]

On 1/18/2017 at 11:39 AM, beatitude said:

To be honest, I have always been quite cautious about this community. I had a friend who discerned with them and I don't want to say too much so as not to violate her privacy or theirs, but I can point to what is publicly visible: the community has changed its name back and forth a couple of times; it started out with a very weakly defined apostolate ("to flood the streets with holy habits") that now seems to have changed to family ministry in parishes; the founder received her formation with the Visitandines and originally imagined the community as Salesian in spirituality, but it's now Benedictine; and so on. To Mother Miriam's credit, all this has been very clear and open, and transparency suggests sincerity. But however sincere she might be, I would be put off discerning with a community that doesn't yet seem to have a coherent sense of itself and its place in the Church - and it may well be just me, but when I look at their website, I'm still not getting that clear sense.

This was also my sense, although to be clear that was just my sense from publicly available information. I've never had any personal connection with this community.

However, one thing I noticed was that she did seem to have a nascent sense of a charism in the beginning, but it seemed like it was the bishops and others she was working with who kept suggesting the changes. For example, I think it was the emeritus bishop of Tulsa who suggested (or requested? or required?) her to associate with a new foundation of Benedictine monks in his diocese (monks who have since moved to Ireland) and then become Benedictine herself as a consequence. So I'm wondering if Mother Miriam ever really had the opportunity to discern her own charism in perfect openness and freedom. 

(Though that's not to say that I think anyone acted in bad faith!)

[Patricia]

Is Mother Miriam still in Tulsa?  And, how many sisters does she have now?  I know she has a radio show during the week, but am curious as to what else her order is doing.

[Nunsuch]

16 hours ago, Patricia said:

Is Mother Miriam still in Tulsa?  And, how many sisters does she have now?  I know she has a radio show during the week, but am curious as to what else her order is doing.

I can't answer many of these questions, but a Tulsa address is still on the website and on the most recent newsletter available there (dated Summer 2020). 

I do find it interesting that, after the Visitandine and Benedictine characteristics mentioned earlier in the thread, the current newsletter has St. Therese (Carmelite) on the cover. There does seem some vagueness, if not confusion in regard to charism and spirituality.

Edited July 20, 2020 by Nunsuch
adding content

[JHFamily]

Yes, they are still in Tulsa. They are, however, looking to move to a diocese where there is more support from the bishop and in which to advance in their canonical status. I understand they are doing well but could not provide you with numbers.

The sisters are Benedictine and offer an Oblate program. They are very involved in promoting the family and pro-life issues. The picture of St. Therese on their current newsletter is the cover of a book on homeschooling that Mother Miriam has quoted from quite a bit recently on her program and to which the entirety of the newsletter is devoted, so it is very much in keeping with their charism of supporting and encouraging family life.

The website isn't really clear on the charism and apostolate, but a website does not a religious community make. Many communities have far less than stellar websites. You can get a better grasp by reading their oblate newsletters and their apostolate newsletters, both of which are found on the website.

[HollyDolly]

Well if they  prefer the latin mass, and the bishop is a liberal, that maybe part of it. A lot of them hate religious and laiety who prefer it the old way. However, if they are sending out mixed signals as to their spirituality, apostolate, that could also be a factor, as well as the various name changes. If you want to start a community, wait till you have some sort of formalized plan and some clear definition of apostolate. This can help attract vocations. If I ever started something, which is going to be never, but how knows, it would be named for  my parish, Good Shepherd, like Handmaids of Jesus Our Shepherd. Training would be with the  Sisters of Charity of the Incarnate Word , their motherhouse is in San Antonio, not far from me. Vicentian spirituality. Sisters would do home visits, etc. works like the Incarnate Word Sisters do.We also have Daughters of Charity here too. This is an example of course as to how confusion could be averted.