RandomProddy Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 [quote name='thicke' date='Jun 25 2004, 05:06 PM'] Actually, most of the Protestants in Northern Ireland would need ot go back to the Scottish lowlands, not England. [/quote] Or they could stay in the UK where they belong.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thicke Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 (edited) [quote name='RandomProddy' date='Jun 25 2004, 10:09 AM'] Or they could stay in the UK where they belong.. [/quote] I don't really care who goes or stays where. I just wish people would stop killing people for childish, outdated reasons. If the Protestants and Catholics in Northern Ireland started living their faith, instead of being so concerned with the color of the blood that flows through their veins, there wouldn't be so much (any?) bloodshed. Just stating my opinion, no matter how much it smells. Edited June 25, 2004 by thicke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thicke Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 [quote name='RandomProddy' date='Jun 24 2004, 09:08 AM']* Catholic mother of ten, Jean McConville, is executed by the Provisional IRA for cushioning the head of a dying British soldier, although it is also claimed that she was informing the British Army of PIRA activities. The PIRA would deny any involvement in the killing until the 1990s, when it would acknowledge its action. [/quote] Sorry proddy, but I must point out a vocabulary error in you post here.. Webster's defines execution as the following: [quote] Main Entry: ex·e·cu·tion Pronunciation: "ek-si-'kyü-sh&n Function: noun Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French, from Latin exsecution-, exsecutio, from exsequi to execute, from ex- + sequi to follow -- more at SUE 1 : the act or process of executing : PERFORMANCE 2 : a putting to death especially as a legal penalty 3 : the process of enforcing a legal judgment (as against a debtor); also : a judicial writ directing such enforcement 4 : the act or mode or result of performance 5 archaic : effective or destructive action <his brandished steel, which smoked with bloody execution -- Shakespeare> -- usually used with do <as soon as day came, we went out to see what execution we had done -- Daniel Defoe> [/quote] It looks like "executed" is improperly used. I would suggest the following word: [quote] Main Entry: 1mur·der Pronunciation: 'm&r-d&r Function: noun Etymology: partly from Middle English murther, from Old English morthor; partly from Middle English murdre, from Old French, of Germanic origin; akin to Old English morthor; akin to Old High German mord murder, Latin mort-, mors death, mori to die, mortuus dead, Greek brotos mortal 1 : the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought 2 a : something very difficult or dangerous <the traffic was murder> b : something outrageous or blameworthy <getting away with murder> [/quote] There is another thread about martyrs. It seems to me that this woman was acting compassionately with perfect Christian charity and died for it. She is a Catholic martyr in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomProddy Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 [quote name='thicke' date='Jun 25 2004, 05:42 PM'] There is another thread about martyrs. It seems to me that this woman was acting compassionately with perfect Christian charity and died for it. She is a Catholic martyr in my opinion. [/quote] Essenitally, yes. Though she's Catholic I'd extend her actions as a beacon for all christians to follow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorphRC Posted June 26, 2004 Author Share Posted June 26, 2004 [quote name='RandomProddy' date='Jun 26 2004, 01:36 AM'] Haha, good luck mate. Napoleon couldn't do it, Hitler couldn't do it, Philip II with the Spanish Armada couldn't do it. Don't forget, god's on our side, that's why we still have Northern Ireland despite the best efforts of the IRA to kill as many protestants and rebellious Catholics as possible. [/quote] Napolean left England, decided for Russia. The same with Hitler. Hitler decided that Russia would be a perfect way to grap the oil fields in the Middle East. Either way they both made stupid mistakes, but the way terrorism is going today, and with North Korea and Iran, I suspect the US and England wont exist for another 100years, if they dont be careful. And with the current attitude towards Englands 'War-Campaign' I dont think many people would break a tear over it. Also why do you say God is on your-side? Are you saying God condones murders, stealing peoples money, and land? Raping their 14yr daughters? Shooting children going to Church? Youve got a weird God then, and it definately aint the ones true Christians[Catholics] worship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorphRC Posted June 26, 2004 Author Share Posted June 26, 2004 [quote name='thicke' date='Jun 26 2004, 02:00 AM'] I don't really care who goes or stays where. I just wish people would stop killing people for childish, outdated reasons. If the Protestants and Catholics in Northern Ireland started living their faith, instead of being so concerned with the color of the blood that flows through their veins, there wouldn't be so much (any?) bloodshed. Just stating my opinion, no matter how much it smells. [/quote] Where the heck did you get that from? Its fighting Imperialism, and religious oppression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thicke Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 [quote name='MorphRC' date='Jun 26 2004, 12:18 AM'] Where the heck did you get that from? Its fighting Imperialism, and religious oppression. [/quote] Notice that my comments were directed at neither side in particular, but both sides. Both sides claim to be Christian, neither side acts like Christians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorphRC Posted June 26, 2004 Author Share Posted June 26, 2004 [quote name='thicke' date='Jun 26 2004, 09:37 PM'] Notice that my comments were directed at neither side in particular, but both sides. Both sides claim to be Christian, neither side acts like Christians. [/quote] 1: Protestants arent Christians anyway. 2: Sometimes un-Christian behaviour must be done, do get a end or a goal done. Im sure we can look at any 'Christian' country and see that today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thicke Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 [quote name='MorphRC' date='Jun 26 2004, 06:57 AM']1: Protestants arent Christians anyway. [/quote] Wrong! I can prove this with the Catechism, but since you don't care what it has to say, I won't waste mine and your time. [quote name='MorphRC' date='Jun 26 2004, 06:57 AM']2: Sometimes un-Christian behaviour must be done, do get a end or a goal done.[/quote] The ends never justify those means... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorphRC Posted June 26, 2004 Author Share Posted June 26, 2004 Yes the 1994 Catechism. Try and find it in the others. -------------------------------------------------------------- [b]NOTE:[/b] Bolded Parts amplify key words. [b]Saint Ignatius of Antioch, a disciple of Saint Peter and Saint Paul (died A.D. 107):[/b] "For as many as are of God and of Jesus Christ are also [b]with the Bishop[/b]. And as many as shall, in the exercise of repentance, return into the unity of the Church, these, too, [b]shall belong to God[/b], that [b]they may live according to Jesus Christ[/b]. Do not err, my brethren. If any man follows him that makes a schism in the Church, he shall not inherit the kingdom of God. [b]If any one walks according to a strange opinion, he agrees not with the passion of Christ[/b]. [b](Epistle to the Philadelphians)[/b] [b]Saint Pionius (died A.D. 250):[/b] "I am a Christian and belong to the [b]Catholic Church[/b]. Would to God I could persuade all of you to [b]become Christians[/b], for it will be the worse for you to burn eternally after death." [b]Saint Cyprian (died A.D. 258):[/b] "But if any one considers these things carefully, he will need no long discourse or arguments. The proof is simple and convincing, being summed up in a matter of fact. The Lord says to Peter, "I say to thee, that thou art Peter and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not overcome it. It will give to thee the keys to the kingdom of heaven. And what thou shalt bind upon earth shall be bound also in heaven, and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed also in heaven." And He says to him again after the resurrection, "Feed my sheep." It is on him that he builds the Church, and to him that he entrusts the sheep to feed. [...] [b]If a man does not hold fast to this oneness of Peter, does he imagine that he still holds the [u]faith[/u]?[/b] If he deserts the Chair of Peter upon whom the Church was built, has he still confidence that he is in the Church?" [b](On the Unity of the Catholic Church)[/b] "Can the power of baptism be greater or of more avail than confession, than suffering, when one confesses Christ before men and is baptized in his own blood? And yet even this baptism does not benefit a heretic, although he has confessed Christ, and been put to death outside the Church, unless the patrons and advocates of heretics declare that the heretics who are slain in a false confession of Christ are martyrs, and assign to them the glory and the crown of martyrdom contrary to the testimony of the apostle, who says that it will profit them nothing although they were burnt and slain. [..] [b]Not even the baptism of a public confession and blood can profit a heretic, because [u]there is no salvation outside the Church[/u][/b]." [b](Epistle LXXII)[/b] [b]Lactantius (died A.D. 310):[/b] "[b]It is the Catholic Church alone which retains true worship[/b]. This is the [b]fountain of truth[/b], this is the [b]abode of the Faith[/b], [b]this is the temple of God[/b]; into which if anyone shall not enter, or from which if anyone shall go out, [b]he is a stranger to the hope of life and eternal salvation[/b]. No one ought to flatter himself with persevering strife. For the contest is respecting life and salvation, which, unless it is carefully and diligently kept in view, will be lost and extinguished." [b](The Divine Institutes)[/b] ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [b]The Synod of Laodicea, A.D. 343-381:[/b] "Canon XXXIV. No [b]Christian[/b] shall forsake the martyrs of Christ, and turn to false martyrs, that is, to [b]those of the heretics[/b], or those who formerly were heretics; for they are aliens from God. Let those who go after them be anathema." "Ancient Epitome of Canon XXXIV. Whosoever honours an heretical pseudo-martyr, let him be anathema." [b]NOTE:[/b] [u]Notice the distinction between Christian and Heretic[/u]. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [b]Do Protestants worship the same God?[/b] [b]Pope Pius IX, A.D. 1846-1878:[/b] ***INFALLIBLE***: Ex cathedra: (The following three propositions are “absolutely condemned” as errors:) - "In the worship of any religion whatever, men can find the way to eternal salvation, and can attain eternal salvation." - "We must have at least good hope concerning the eternal salvation of all those who in no wise are in the true Church of Christ." - "Protestantism is nothing else than a different form of the same true Christian religion, in which it is possible to serve God as well as in the Catholic Church." (Syllabus of Errors, attached to Quanta Cura above) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [b]Pope Pius IX, A.D. 1846-1878:[/b] This applies also to Protestantism, since Protestants believe in a Christ who never existed. They believe in a Christ who did not establish a Church to teach, govern and sanctify all men. They believe in a Christ who did not establish a Papacy. They believe in a Christ who does not want us to honor His Holy Mother Mary. (And we know from the Fatima Message that God wants to establish in the world devotion to Our Lady’s Immaculate Heart). They believe in a Christ who did not establish seven Sacraments as the primary means of grace for salvation. They believe in a Christ who did not establish the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. In short, Protestants worship a false Christ, that is, a false God. This is why Blessed Pope Pius IX taught in his 1864 Syllabus that it is an error to believe that "Protestantism is nothing more than another form of the same true Christian religion."[1] [i]1. Pope Pius IX, Syllabus of Errors, 1864, Condemned Proposition #18. Popes Against Modern Errors: 16 Papal Documents, (Rockford: Tan, 1999), p. 30.[/i] ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thicke Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 It's interesting how you are changing the subject to meet your own agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorphRC Posted June 26, 2004 Author Share Posted June 26, 2004 [quote name='thicke' date='Jun 27 2004, 12:16 AM'] It's interesting how you are changing the subject to meet your own agenda. [/quote] *Cough* [i]Wrong! I can prove this with the Catechism, but since you don't care what it has to say, I won't waste mine and your time.[/i] Changing which subject? I was giving you some Church statements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popestpiusx Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 [quote name='MorphRC' date='Jun 26 2004, 08:38 AM'] Yes the 1994 Catechism. Try and find it in the others. -------------------------------------------------------------- [b]NOTE:[/b] Bolded Parts amplify key words. [b]Saint Ignatius of Antioch, a disciple of Saint Peter and Saint Paul (died A.D. 107):[/b] "For as many as are of God and of Jesus Christ are also [b]with the Bishop[/b]. And as many as shall, in the exercise of repentance, return into the unity of the Church, these, too, [b]shall belong to God[/b], that [b]they may live according to Jesus Christ[/b]. Do not err, my brethren. If any man follows him that makes a schism in the Church, he shall not inherit the kingdom of God. [b]If any one walks according to a strange opinion, he agrees not with the passion of Christ[/b]. [b](Epistle to the Philadelphians)[/b] [b]Saint Pionius (died A.D. 250):[/b] "I am a Christian and belong to the [b]Catholic Church[/b]. Would to God I could persuade all of you to [b]become Christians[/b], for it will be the worse for you to burn eternally after death." [b]Saint Cyprian (died A.D. 258):[/b] "But if any one considers these things carefully, he will need no long discourse or arguments. The proof is simple and convincing, being summed up in a matter of fact. The Lord says to Peter, "I say to thee, that thou art Peter and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not overcome it. It will give to thee the keys to the kingdom of heaven. And what thou shalt bind upon earth shall be bound also in heaven, and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed also in heaven." And He says to him again after the resurrection, "Feed my sheep." It is on him that he builds the Church, and to him that he entrusts the sheep to feed. [...] [b]If a man does not hold fast to this oneness of Peter, does he imagine that he still holds the [u]faith[/u]?[/b] If he deserts the Chair of Peter upon whom the Church was built, has he still confidence that he is in the Church?" [b](On the Unity of the Catholic Church)[/b] "Can the power of baptism be greater or of more avail than confession, than suffering, when one confesses Christ before men and is baptized in his own blood? And yet even this baptism does not benefit a heretic, although he has confessed Christ, and been put to death outside the Church, unless the patrons and advocates of heretics declare that the heretics who are slain in a false confession of Christ are martyrs, and assign to them the glory and the crown of martyrdom contrary to the testimony of the apostle, who says that it will profit them nothing although they were burnt and slain. [..] [b]Not even the baptism of a public confession and blood can profit a heretic, because [u]there is no salvation outside the Church[/u][/b]." [b](Epistle LXXII)[/b] [b]Lactantius (died A.D. 310):[/b] "[b]It is the Catholic Church alone which retains true worship[/b]. This is the [b]fountain of truth[/b], this is the [b]abode of the Faith[/b], [b]this is the temple of God[/b]; into which if anyone shall not enter, or from which if anyone shall go out, [b]he is a stranger to the hope of life and eternal salvation[/b]. No one ought to flatter himself with persevering strife. For the contest is respecting life and salvation, which, unless it is carefully and diligently kept in view, will be lost and extinguished." [b](The Divine Institutes)[/b] ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [b]The Synod of Laodicea, A.D. 343-381:[/b] "Canon XXXIV. No [b]Christian[/b] shall forsake the martyrs of Christ, and turn to false martyrs, that is, to [b]those of the heretics[/b], or those who formerly were heretics; for they are aliens from God. Let those who go after them be anathema." "Ancient Epitome of Canon XXXIV. Whosoever honours an heretical pseudo-martyr, let him be anathema." [b]NOTE:[/b] [u]Notice the distinction between Christian and Heretic[/u]. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [b]Do Protestants worship the same God?[/b] [b]Pope Pius IX, A.D. 1846-1878:[/b] ***INFALLIBLE***: Ex cathedra: (The following three propositions are “absolutely condemned” as errors:) - "In the worship of any religion whatever, men can find the way to eternal salvation, and can attain eternal salvation." - "We must have at least good hope concerning the eternal salvation of all those who in no wise are in the true Church of Christ." - "Protestantism is nothing else than a different form of the same true Christian religion, in which it is possible to serve God as well as in the Catholic Church." (Syllabus of Errors, attached to Quanta Cura above) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [b]Pope Pius IX, A.D. 1846-1878:[/b] This applies also to Protestantism, since Protestants believe in a Christ who never existed. They believe in a Christ who did not establish a Church to teach, govern and sanctify all men. They believe in a Christ who did not establish a Papacy. They believe in a Christ who does not want us to honor His Holy Mother Mary. (And we know from the Fatima Message that God wants to establish in the world devotion to Our Lady’s Immaculate Heart). They believe in a Christ who did not establish seven Sacraments as the primary means of grace for salvation. They believe in a Christ who did not establish the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. In short, Protestants worship a false Christ, that is, a false God. This is why Blessed Pope Pius IX taught in his 1864 Syllabus that it is an error to believe that "Protestantism is nothing more than another form of the same true Christian religion."[1] [i]1. Pope Pius IX, Syllabus of Errors, 1864, Condemned Proposition #18. Popes Against Modern Errors: 16 Papal Documents, (Rockford: Tan, 1999), p. 30.[/i] ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [/quote] Great post Morph. I'm behind you on this one. Though I am not a republican, but a monarchist. I agree that England must leave Northern Ireland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomProddy Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 [quote name='popestpiusx' date='Jun 26 2004, 05:51 PM'] Though I am not a republican, but a monarchist. I agree that England must leave Northern Ireland. [/quote] Northern Ireland is not part of England, it is part of the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 Pity it can't be part of Ireland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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