For those who defend Trump

[havok579257]

1 minute ago, Era Might said:

There've been a few blacks in Congress. You can lump them in too, if it makes you feel better. I'm all for diversity when it comes to blame.

so now only blacks and whites have been in congress.  no other nationality?  also no women since you said it was just white men behind this?

[Era Might]

3 minutes ago, havok579257 said:

so now only blacks and whites have been in congress.  no other nationality?  also no women since you said it was just white men behind this?

We'll call for a Congressional investigation to determine how many Indians and natives of Guam have served in Congress. They deserve their share of blame too.

I'm heading out, last day with my family before I go home (been visiting). Just two final points:

1. I am against abortion, but not on the terms of the pro-life movement. I want nothing to do with that ideology.

2. Christians are loons. And I would say this to Christ himself. Not all Christians, but the ones who mix politics and religion, loons, all of them. Roy Moore. All of them. There's a lot of good people out there, though, even the loons.

Thanks for the discussion.

[28yrolddiscerner]

I support Trump. He was the most popular Republican candidate and unlike Hillary, he is PRO LIFE!!! We must overturn roe vs wade and he is our hope for that. 58 million dead!! That’s a genocide.

im not saying he’s perfect, but he has a good heart!

[KnightofChrist]

1 hour ago, Era Might said:

Why are you obsessed with what is legal and illegal? Maybe child murder SHOULDN'T be illegal. I guarantee you that no woman kills her child because it is legal or illegal. That has absolutely no bearing on her mental problems, situation or whatever drove her to kill her children. But, it makes the state feel good and keeps it in power. You're asking what should be legal or illegal. I prefer what Christ said: Let your yes be yes and your no be no. Anything more is of the evil one.

Maybe child murder should not be illegal? I'd love it if you could answer what was asked of you with a yes being yes or a no being no.

[Era Might]

3 hours ago, KnightofChrist said:

Maybe child murder should not be illegal? I'd love it if you could answer what was asked of you with a yes being yes or a no being no.

Yes, that's the problem with law and why Jesus condemned it and refused to argue with lawyers. Jesus never called for anything to be illegal, not even child murder.

[KnightofChrist]

3 hours ago, Era Might said:

Yes, that's the problem with law and why Jesus condemned it and refused to argue with lawyers. Jesus never called for anything to be illegal, not even child murder.

Wow, so, no jail or hell for those that murder children. 

[Seven77]

 Ideologies don't solve problems. Ultimately it won't be laws that end abortions. It's all about winning hearts and minds through love. Make abortions unthinkable not merely "illegal." Too many people in the USA think in terms of legalism...  this is a problem with Protestantism and thinking like this. I think that is what Era is getting at.  Jesus came to divinize us, not to issue court sentences and legal statements of justification and salvation. 

Not trying to sound naive.  I support the work that my sister and the Sisters of Life do. They support women who are contemplating abortion. They love them away from choosing abortion. They witness to the sanctity of life by actually loving people. It's a novel idea that we should all try sometime. 

I wish all the problems of the world could be solved with gif wars.

Edited December 9, 2017 by Seven77

[28yrolddiscerner]

You're never going to change everyone's heart & meanwhile millions are being murdered!! It MUST be illegal. And yes, we will continue to change hearts and minds. Btw, Jesus never spoke against having good politicians.

[Norseman82]

On ‎12‎/‎8‎/‎2017 at 11:40 AM, Era Might said:

You didn't answer my question. If we're going to make abortion illegal, then what are the consequences of having an abortion, and how will you use the violent forces of the state to prevent abortions? That's what it means to make something illegal.

In the past, the government punished the doctors and had the power to close the facilities that provided abortions. 

[havok579257]

22 hours ago, Seven77 said:

 Ideologies don't solve problems. Ultimately it won't be laws that end abortions. It's all about winning hearts and minds through love. Make abortions unthinkable not merely "illegal." Too many people in the USA think in terms of legalism...  this is a problem with Protestantism and thinking like this. I think that is what Era is getting at.  Jesus came to divinize us, not to issue court sentences and legal statements of justification and salvation. 

Not trying to sound naive.  I support the work that my sister and the Sisters of Life do. They support women who are contemplating abortion. They love them away from choosing abortion. They witness to the sanctity of life by actually loving people. It's a novel idea that we should all try sometime. 

I wish all the problems of the world could be solved with gif wars.

do you advocate the same idea for rape,child molestation, murder,sexual abuse,assault?  I mean whats the difference between these and abortion when it comes to your point.  You say we we shouldn't make it illegal, we should work on changing hearts and minds and make people not want to have abortions.  So if your being consistant you should have the same views about all these things I mentioned above.  If your not advocating making murder, rape, child molestation, sexual abuse and assault not be made illegal and just trying to change hearts and minds, why are you contradicting yourself?  Why is one thing ok to be made illegal but not another?

[Era Might]

22 hours ago, havok579257 said:

do you advocate the same idea for rape,child molestation, murder,sexual abuse,assault?  I mean whats the difference between these and abortion when it comes to your point.  You say we we shouldn't make it illegal, we should work on changing hearts and minds and make people not want to have abortions.  So if your being consistant you should have the same views about all these things I mentioned above.  If your not advocating making murder, rape, child molestation, sexual abuse and assault not be made illegal and just trying to change hearts and minds, why are you contradicting yourself?  Why is one thing ok to be made illegal but not another?

Before you ask the government to treat abortion the same as child molestation and murder, do you? Half a million women have abortions every year in the US. Do you avoid them on the street? Do you keep your children away from them? If you found our your child's teacher had an abortion, would you remove your child from the school? What would you do if you found out the same teacher was a molester instead of having had an abortion. In your mind, that's the same thing. What if you found out your mother had an abortion you never knew about. Would you treat her the same as you would treat your father if you found out he was a rapist?

Edited December 11, 2017 by Era Might

[Child of the child]

Throw them all in jail, especially for murder, rape and stuff like that. 

That's the way it has to be

[havok579257]

29 minutes ago, Era Might said:

Before you ask the government to treat abortion the same as child molestation and murder, do you? Half a million women have abortions every year in the US. Do you avoid them on the street? Do you keep your children away from them? If you found our your child's teacher had an abortion, would you remove your child from the school? What would you do if you found out the same teacher was a molester instead of having had an abortion. In your mind, that's the same thing. What if you found out your mother had an abortion you never knew about. Would you treat her the same as you would treat your father if you found out he was a rapist?

so murder of adults and child molestation, not okay.  murder of babies, ok.  its that the logic your trying to argue for?

 

in your mind why is it ok to murder a baby but not ok to murder an adult or a adolescent?  Your not really making a good argument why one should be acceptable in society and one should not.  If you truly believe abortion is wrong and the murder of an innocent baby is wrong, why should it not be treated the same as a murder of an adult? the only thing you seem to be hanging on to is, its acceptable in society, so we shouldn't make something illegal that society deems acceptable.  slavery, segregation, women not being equal to men in basic rights in America, child labor and so on.  all of these evil things at one time were looked at as acceptable in society.  laws were changed in some cases before hearts and minds changed such as slavery and segregation.  yet, according to your logic, that was a mistake.  those things never should have been made illegal because just making something illegal doesn't really do anything.  i mean disregard the fact, that history disproves that theory.

 

if abortion is made illegal tomorrow and all abortion clinics are shut down, the numbers of abortions in America drastically drop.  without easy access to abortions and insurance paid abortions, the rates would drop.  not to mention the huge amount of people who won't get an abortion because its illegal.  i mean if you tell people anyone who commits abortion will be tried for murder, the rates will drop.  if people know they will go to prison for murder, they won't do it. sure there will be some but there will be some child molesters and rapists and so on no matter if its illegal or not.

 

as to how to punish those who procure an abortion or perform one, its real simple.  any abortions before it illegal are not prosecuted.  its the same way with laws now.  if something was legal and then made illegal, you can not be charged for committing an act that was legal when you committed the act.  for future, you treat it like you would any other murder . the abortionist gets charged with 1st degree murder and the mother gets charged or not charged depending on the facts just like in a normal murder case.  same goes for anyone who coerces the women into an abortion.  its really simple.  its murder and you treat it as such. just because its a baby does not mean its likfe is any less important than an adults. 

[Child of the child]

I would pray for all who commit abortion. 

No i wouldn't pull out my child grin that school

Molesters have victims and preys on it. 

Different situation. I know your trying to make a case on the 2 sins. But you got to think about it. 

 

 

 

[Era Might]

6 minutes ago, havok579257 said:

so murder of adults and child molestation, not okay.  murder of babies, ok.  its that the logic your trying to argue for?

Do you know who has had an abortion on your block? What are you doing about it? Are you taking steps to protect your home against these savages? Your children? What are YOU doing to keep yourself safe from the epidemic of women loose on the streets?