Fr. Frank Pavone

[<3 PopeFrancis]

I think he is worthy of his own topic.

I saw first hand how his actions made people think and brought a shift in the voting minds.

The feeling I among others sense over this election outcome overall is peace.  The fight is not over.  It is time not only to let babies live and grow in the dignity of life that is their God-given right, but, to allow them and from the most vulnerable on up to live with the dignity that Christianity gives.  

I don't think he did anything worse than the disgusting display of campaigning this year as ever.  On the contrary, he as a U.S. citizen has the right to lobby in his way and not the conventional  ^^&&-kissing secretive way other politicians lobby for the benefit of themselves and not "the American people.

As far as desecrating the altar, that was Christ on the altar.  It exposed who's who and what on this topic.  I found it very enlightening.

 

Thank you, Fr. Frank Pavone.  God bless you.

 

[Anomaly]

One thing most people should have learned after this disgusting campaign is that vulgarity and hypocrisy  gets attention, but also disengages the intellect.  

Shocking crudity may get your message spread wider but it also simultaneously undermines the quality of the content and messenger.  Fr Pavone came off as another crazy with crazy ideas.  His hope and desire to humanize abortion victims, teach to the sanctity of a human, and generate empathy was undermined with his own crass and dehumanizing action using the poor child's body as a prop.  I make no theological judgement of his use of the altar.  

Edited November 15, 2016 by Anomaly

[dominicansoul]

Many people are coming forward telling him that they changed their minds after seeing the video and voted against Hilary.  

I personally found the video very moving and sad.  That poor little baby! 

 

May God rid our country of the murder of the unborn...

 

[KnightofChrist]

3 hours ago, Anomaly said:

One thing most people should have learned after this disgusting campaign is that vulgarity and hypocrisy  gets attention, but also disengages the intellect.  

Shocking crudity may get your message spread wider but it also simultaneously undermines the quality of the content and messenger.  Fr Pavone came off as another crazy with crazy ideas.  His hope and desire to humanize abortion victims, teach to the sanctity of a human, and generate empathy was undermined with his own crass and dehumanizing action using the poor child's body as a prop.  I make no theological judgement of his use of the altar.  

In the other Father Pavone thread you spoke out against using strong language, such as call people murderers and comparing abortion to a Holocaust. Because it pushes people away, and closes up their ears. But I guess we can use strong language like calling people crazy, looking crazy, acting crazy, thinking crazy, by committing a shocking crass dehumanizing actions and not have to worry about pushing people away and destroying dialogue. 

 

Edited November 15, 2016 by KnightofChrist

[Anomaly]

I don't think I came off too strong against harsh words in the other thread.   Personally, I feel (and say) abortion is killing / murdering inconvenient people.  

It is about knowing your audience and your environment.   I like Fr Pavone and do respect him.   I still get mail from his organization soliciting for more money.  I think Fr has gone a little too far with the infant on the altar in this instance.

If your words or method is too harsh then you mostly negate what you've tried to accomplish because the other side just wants to point out how rude or extreme your message was.  It's like the old adage: sometimes you attract more flies with honey, but sh1+ works in a pinch.

I personally know a few priests, some as kids.   They're human and regular guys.  But when acting as a priest, in a priestly role, temper your actions accordingly.   Don't give ammo and load the gun for your enemies.  

We learned from the recent campaign that every crudity, crassness, rudeness, harshness was blown up into hyberbolic "hate speech".   It's not a really a good strategy except possibly in very rare instances.  

[<3 PopeFrancis]

4 hours ago, Anomaly said:

One thing most people should have learned after this disgusting campaign is that vulgarity and hypocrisy  gets attention, but also disengages the intellect.  

Shocking crudity may get your message spread wider but it also simultaneously undermines the quality of the content and messenger.  Fr Pavone came off as another crazy with crazy ideas.  His hope and desire to humanize abortion victims, teach to the sanctity of a human, and generate empathy was undermined with his own crass and dehumanizing action using the poor child's body as a prop.  I make no theological judgement of his use of the altar.  

St. Paul was another crazy.  

It was last minute pre-election campaigning.  I agree it was a radical approach; that is what makes us human in God's work.  He wasn't just making a point.  If the fetus is not human then why are we appalled at the sight?  Since the fetus is human, this is what we are doing to the least of our brothers.  The less we try to keep from "polite society" the longer these human's suffer.  

St. Nicolaus punched someone at a meeting of one of the early Council's when they argued Jesus was not divine.  

 

4 hours ago, dominicansoul said:

Many people are coming forward telling him that they changed their minds after seeing the video and voted against Hilary.  

I personally found the video very moving and sad.  That poor little baby! 

 

May God rid our country of the murder of the unborn...

 

I've seen some die-hard Hillary's  not vote because of this.  I saw the direct impact.  I actually did not see the post; but, the reaction to it was such that I had to find out.

I'm also sorry for that baby; that baby was dead because it was aborted.

 

[Anomaly]

10 minutes ago, <3 PopeFrancis said:

St. Paul was another crazy.  

It was last minute pre-election campaigning.  I agree it was a radical approach; that is what makes us human in God's work.  He wasn't just making a point.  If the fetus is not human then why are we appalled at the sight?  Since the fetus is human, this is what we are doing to the least of our brothers.  The less we try to keep from "polite society" the longer these human's suffer.  

St. Nicolaus punched someone at a meeting of one of the early Council's when they argued Jesus was not divine.  

 

I've seen some die-hard Hillary's  not vote because of this.  I saw the direct impact.  I actually did not see the post; but, the reaction to it was such that I had to find out.

I'm also sorry for that baby; that baby was dead because it was aborted.

 

You don't make sense.   If YOU believe the child is no less a human than anyone else, YOU don't use their naked body laying on the altar to make a point.  

Have an open casket wake, like you would for anyone else.  

Clothe the person, like you would anyone else.

Be respectful, like you would for anyone else.

Fr Pavone didn't change anyone's mind that didn't already believe that child was a Person.  He may have shocked a few, but probably hardened as many hearts as well.  

He DID NOT respect the child like most respect loved ones, and his disrespect was done with intention.   Fr is trying to teach and convert heats to respect and consider the child as a real person.  Public disrespect, offensive to most, is not the way to do it.   This momentary lapse in judgement, blatant hypocrisy, allows detractors to dismiss him as a crazy.  It may win a minor skirmish, but it doesn't really advance the cause.

[Seven77]

 I agree with Anomaly here. These actions of Father's do not do much to advance the cause but rather harm it-- shocking audiences does little to convert the heart or the mind. if we are to pity the poor aborted baby, and we should, why parade his or her body around like a political tool?

 Would it have been okay for a priest to display the actual human remains of a Holocaust victim before the altar?

At the same time, I do understand the reasoning and the symbolism. But it doesn't justify violating canon law and common sense/ human decency.

Edited November 16, 2016 by Seven77

[<3 PopeFrancis]

3 hours ago, Anomaly said:

Fr Pavone didn't change anyone's mind that didn't already believe that child was a Person.  He may have shocked a few, but probably hardened as many hearts as well.  

Perhaps he hardened hearts but he did not do it to change the minds of people who believe.  Still, the people who do believe the fetus is human still vote for Hillary who not only supports abortion but however inadvertant and far you place yourself He saying you are still responsible if you vote for her.  The e-mails were the beginning for her - there is evidence she was into harvesting and making money from fetus'.  

He did it to emphasize that at the stage of that fetus babies DO NOT wear clothes yet are human.  

Were YOU born wearing clothes?

That does not make sense.

Election is over.

 

1 minute ago, <3 PopeFrancis said:

the people who do not believe

excuse me:  the people who DO believe

Edited November 16, 2016 by <3 PopeFrancis

[<3 PopeFrancis]

57 minutes ago, Seven77 said:

 I agree with Anomaly here. These actions of Father's do not do much to advance the cause but rather harm it-- shocking audiences does little to convert the heart or the mind. if we are to pity the poor aborted baby, and we should, why parade his or her body around like a political tool?

 Would it have been okay for a priest to display the actual human remains of a Holocaust victim before the altar?

At the same time, I do understand the reasoning and the symbolism. But it doesn't justify violating canon law and common sense/ human decency.

Whatever the radical approach (at least it was an approach) in order to stop killing babies for one second and for the very reasons canon laws are against, namely, every Cardinal sin.  Law was made for man, not man for the law.  The purpose of this approach for him was for the advancement of the "dignity" of humanity.

The point was that someone threw out the baby as garbage literally garbage.  Once one throws out the trash it is anyone's to do with.  I would have been proud if out of the millions and millions and millions and millions around the world I were chosen to be with my Creator on the Altar.  

I do not know what the implications of it can be as for Canon Law.  He made his point with me without desecrating the dignity of the Holy Sacrament of the Altar.

[Jack4]

Would you keep a dead old man on the Altar while speaking against euthanasia?

[<3 PopeFrancis]

 

1 hour ago, Jack4 said:

Would you keep a dead old man on the Altar while speaking against euthanasia?

Assuming you are speaking with me, I would.

Edited November 16, 2016 by <3 PopeFrancis

[Archaeology cat]

On 11/15/2016 at 7:37 PM, Anomaly said:

You don't make sense.   If YOU believe the child is no less a human than anyone else, YOU don't use their naked body laying on the altar to make a point.  

Have an open casket wake, like you would for anyone else.  

Clothe the person, like you would anyone else.

Be respectful, like you would for anyone else.

Fr Pavone didn't change anyone's mind that didn't already believe that child was a Person.  He may have shocked a few, but probably hardened as many hearts as well.  

He DID NOT respect the child like most respect loved ones, and his disrespect was done with intention.   Fr is trying to teach and convert heats to respect and consider the child as a real person.  Public disrespect, offensive to most, is not the way to do it.   This momentary lapse in judgement, blatant hypocrisy, allows detractors to dismiss him as a crazy.  It may win a minor skirmish, but it doesn't really advance the cause.

Yes.

On 11/15/2016 at 9:58 PM, Seven77 said:

 I agree with Anomaly here. These actions of Father's do not do much to advance the cause but rather harm it-- shocking audiences does little to convert the heart or the mind. if we are to pity the poor aborted baby, and we should, why parade his or her body around like a political tool?

 Would it have been okay for a priest to display the actual human remains of a Holocaust victim before the altar?

At the same time, I do understand the reasoning and the symbolism. But it doesn't justify violating canon law and common sense/ human decency.

Yes. 

My friends who are not Catholic and who are pro-choice saw this and were horrified. They didn't see it and think, "oh, he's right, abortion is horrific and now I'll vote Trump." No, they were horrified that such an action was pro-life. Is there a disconnect? You bet, but this neither convinced anyone who wasn't already aware of the horrors of abortion, nor did it respect the child. 

[dominicansoul]

Him having a naked baby on the altar wasn't shocking...what was shocking is seeing the signs on the baby's body of how the baby was murdered.   I didn't even think of it being disrespectful or breaking canon laws.  That was the farthest thing from my mind.  That little baby had all my attention...

His superiors are looking into it and have already done their usual job of condemning and showing outrage.  I think Father Pavone gets in trouble alot.  

We shall see what happens to Father Pavone, but I feel he has a pretty close relationship with the souls who have been aborted...it's like they know him and he knows them... I'm sure they are praying for him, as we all should... 

[LittleWaySoul]

On 11/15/2016 at 7:05 PM, <3 PopeFrancis said:

St. Nicolaus punched someone at a meeting of one of the early Council's when they argued Jesus was not divine.  

St. Nicholas repented after punching Arius at Nicaea and certainly would not want us to follow his example in something he himself regarded as sinful. 

The. Ends. Do. Not. Justify. The. Means. 

Sheesh, guys. How many times do I have to say this? Sin is sin is sin is sin. It doesn't matter whatsoever if there's a perceived good or justification for it. Stop championing consequentialism.