Guest Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Is Pope Francis actually possibly, perhaps, might, could be doing something right? (tongue in cheek) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peace Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 9 minutes ago, BarbaraTherese said: Is Pope Francis actually possibly, perhaps, might, could be doing something right? (tongue in cheek) To the extent that he agrees with me, yes, he would be right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 7 minutes ago, Peace said: To the extent that he agrees with me, yes, he would be right. Spot on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted February 3, 2017 Author Share Posted February 3, 2017 For nearly ten years I have argued that the regularization of the SSPX will be an act of justice, and the correction of a sub optimal and ultimately unnecessary state of tension. If Pope Francis is the one to carry out that act, then it is to his credit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Nihil Obstat said: For nearly ten years I have argued that the regularization of the SSPX will be an act of justice, and the correction of a sub optimal and ultimately unnecessary state of tension. If Pope Francis is the one to carry out that act, then it is to his credit. Well, it apparently might happen this year for you, Nihil. Congrats on being gifted fruit to your efforts in all probability! It is very obvious that Pope Francis is desperately looking for credit anywhere he can get it (tongue in cheek again) I really hope and am praying that the SSPX will be granted regularization - but probably I think for what would be in the minority of reasons, if that even - although I do keep also focus and reflections on Pope Francis, Vicar of Christ on earth as his mind (inspiration of The Holy Spirit to our Holy Father) ticks over and revealed in various ways in all probability. I posted when Pope Francis was first elected that I bet if PF decided to put his foot down, it would go right through the floor (of status quo). Nice to be right sometimes, he sure is rocking the boat of status quo.......or has he sunk it already. Edited February 3, 2017 by BarbaraTherese Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 Quote 1 Galatians Ch 1 12 "For it has been reported to me about you, my brothers, by Chloe's people, that there are rivalries among you. I mean that each of you is saying"............. (I belong to archbishop Marcel Lefebvre and the SSPX)........... "I belong to 5 Paul," or "I belong to Apollos," or "I belong to Kephas," or "I belong to Christ." Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? In our day, we recognise (I thought) that those who belong to Christ are obedient to the Vicar of Christ on earth. Ah well, Paul was successful in embracing us gentiles into The Church of Christ. I do hope PF will be successful in embracing/regularizing the SSPX into The Church of Christ, for my own reasons watching Pope Francis - nothing infallible whatsoever. I do recognise of course that PF while under the inspiration of The Holy Spirit re the Universal Church may or may not follow that inspiration culpably or inculpably. As I (with all) have the inspiration of the Holy Spirit and responsibility and accountability for my own journey and it's duties etc, Pope Francis has the same for his journey and it's duties etc........and knows it. Not a job to relish in my book! Chess anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted February 3, 2017 Author Share Posted February 3, 2017 Do Dominicans belong to St. Dominic, and Franciscans to Francis? Or the FSSP to Frs. Berg and Saguto and Gerstle and Paul-Joseph? I believe that is an incredibly shallow objection to the Society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peace Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 3 hours ago, Nihil Obstat said: For nearly ten years I have argued that the regularization of the SSPX will be an act of justice, and the correction of a sub optimal and ultimately unnecessary state of tension. If Pope Francis is the one to carry out that act, then it is to his credit. Well I suppose there is something to be said for dialogue after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 1 hour ago, Nihil Obstat said: Do Dominicans belong to St. Dominic, and Franciscans to Francis? Or the FSSP to Frs. Berg and Saguto and Gerstle and Paul-Joseph? I believe that is an incredibly shallow objection to the Society. Insofar as Dominicans and Franciscans Orders are loyal to their founders, Saints Dominic and Francis, who were loyal to The Church and all it means, yes, of course, they belong to The Church. We pray it every Sunday (at least) in the creed "I believe in The Holy Catholic Church" of whom at this point Pope Francis is Vicar of Christ on earth. 45 minutes ago, Peace said: Well I suppose there is something to be said for dialogue after all. Spot on again. (1. take part in a conversation or discussion to resolve a problem). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted February 3, 2017 Author Share Posted February 3, 2017 22 minutes ago, BarbaraTherese said: Insofar as Dominicans and Franciscans Orders are loyal to their founders, Saints Dominic and Francis, who were loyal to The Church and all it means, yes, of course, they belong to The Church. We pray it every Sunday (at least) in the creed "I believe in The Holy Catholic Church" of whom at this point Pope Francis is Vicar of Christ on earth. The same goes for the Society, ultimately, albeit rather newer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 1 hour ago, BarbaraTherese said: 3 hours ago, Nihil Obstat said: Do Dominicans belong to St. Dominic, and Franciscans to Francis? Or the FSSP to Frs. Berg and Saguto and Gerstle and Paul-Joseph? I believe that is an incredibly shallow objection to the Society. Barbara Therese: Insofar as Dominicans and Franciscans Orders are loyal to their founders, Saints Dominic and Francis, who were loyal to The Church and all it means, yes, of course, they belong to The Church. We pray it every Sunday (at least) in the creed "I believe in The Holy Catholic Church" of whom at this point Pope Francis is Vicar of Christ on earth. 1 hour ago, Nihil Obstat said: The same goes for the Society, ultimately, albeit rather newer. A matter of perspective and criteria applied. Interesting comment, Nihil, in view of what I have read - trying to stay with reliable sources and it gets daily, hourly more difficult on the internet. Whatever Pope Francis, Vicar of Christ on earth, decides is good enough for me "Thou art Peter, The Rock, and on this Rock I will build my Church and the Gates of Hell shall not prevail against it" But then another matter of perspective and criteria comes into play I am guessing i.e. definition of "Gates of Hell"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 There are factors within The Church striving for division to set their own agenda apart from that of what The Church teaches. There are factors from outside The Church pushing their own agendas, and those of others, pushing to divide The Church - and proclaiming that The Church is divided and rocky on its foundations. The Unity and the Stability of The Church is Christ and can Christ be divided and destabilised in His Own Self? Doctrine of The Mystical Body of Christ. The Church is under persecution and nothing new. Perhaps we will loose many of our numbers, our vocations even to some of the various states of life, all our political clout and respectability, confidence of the secular community and goodness knows what else we have had to date giving a sense of personal security and esteem (read Pope Benedict's prediction). Doesn't mean that The Church is in dire straights, ..........only to the grim and dark doomsday prophets and the ilk. The Church might be in difficulty and suffering, nothing new, nothing surprising to revelation. Faith and a theological virtue and Gift of The Holy Spirit at Baptism with God's Grace can and will stand against all comers no matter what. To date we in the Western world anyway are not being condemned to death as our Church martyrs were and are. And if it should come to us also, then we need to hope and pray earnestly and ardently for the courage and strength to stand shoulder to shoulder with our martyrs proclaiming Christ, His Gospel and His Church - as do our martyrs even today. Quote Acts Chapter 20: "I know that after my departure savage wolves will come among you, and they will not spare the flock. And from your own group, men will come forward perverting the truth to draw the disciples away after them" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack4 Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 3 hours ago, BarbaraTherese said: Whatever Pope Francis, Vicar of Christ on earth, decides is good enough for me "Thou art Peter, The Rock, and on this Rock I will build my Church and the Gates of Hell shall not prevail against it" But then another matter of perspective and criteria comes into play I am guessing i.e. definition of "Gates of Hell"? Popes Honorius, Liberius, John. 7 hours ago, BarbaraTherese said: In our day, we recognise (I thought) that those who belong to Christ are obedient to the Vicar of Christ on earth. The SSPX have technical canonical arguments for their relation vis-a-vis the Hierarchy (state of emergency clauses). I don't know if that argument is correct, but we shouldn't dismiss it offhand. 8 hours ago, BarbaraTherese said: Chess anyone? e4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Jack4 said: 4 hours ago, BarbaraTherese said: Whatever Pope Francis, Vicar of Christ on earth, decides is good enough for me "Thou art Peter, The Rock, and on this Rock I will build my Church and the Gates of Hell shall not prevail against it" But then another matter of perspective and criteria comes into play I am guessing i.e. definition of "Gates of Hell"? 35 minutes ago, Jack4 said: Popes Honorius, Liberius, John. Is that a definition of "The Gates of Hell"?. Because if it is definition of The Gats of Hell, then The Gates of Hell did not prevail, did they? And just as Jesus predicted for us. Now name all the good and holy, saintly Popes we have had down through our 2000 odd year history. It is similar to those who desire to attack and bring down The Church because of the shocking scandals some of our priests have been involved in, the heinous crimes they have committed against children. These who do desire to bring down The Church because of those dreadful men and priests, dastardly criminals, who were not one iota following Jesus, His Gospel and The Church, certainly not their vocation and call from God either. Such people choose to ignore the by far holy, saintly and committed, faithful and very hard working priests on all hierarchical levels including the Papacy that far outnumber the criminal priests at any level. They choose to ignore our number of holy, saintly and committed faithful religious and other consecrated vocations in our midst. They also choose to ignore the many holy, saintly and committed faithful laypeople - who work diligently and constantly in many ways for The Gospel, Jesus and His Church both within The Church and in the general community, within their families often burdened by the stress of modern life and many other stressful matters, including the financial, without any sort of acclamation nor recognition in The Church formally nor in secular life either on any level whatsoever. They live that hidden very ordinary life in an extraordinary manner in the foosteps of St Therese of Lisiuex........but primarily in the footsteps of Mary, Mother of Jesus and our mother. Mary lived the hidden ordinary life except for those times when we hear of her in The Gospel and finally at the terrible execution of her Son. I am a mother, I have no idea how she did that without fainting right away completely - other than an outstanding Grace of God to an incredible woman indeed. After her Son's death she goes on in the journey God calls her to in the early Church until her death and is heard of after Jesus' death in the Acts of The Apostles at Pentecost. As with St Therese, Mary is not lauded until after her death. Edited February 3, 2017 by BarbaraTherese Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack4 Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 2 hours ago, BarbaraTherese said: Mary is not lauded until after her death. Lk 11:27? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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