Dubia Submitted to the Holy Father

[Jack4]

Just now, Jack4 said:

 

Bishop Schneider likens treatment of four Cardinals to Soviet regime: ‘We live in a climate of threats’

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/bishop-schneider-compares-treatment-of-four-cardinals-to-soviet-regime 

 

[Amppax]

3 hours ago, Jack4 said:

Bishop Schneider likens treatment of four Cardinals to Soviet regime

This seems like a little much... and I tend to be sympathetic to Bishop Schneider and the cardinals who submitted the dubia. 

[Nihil Obstat]

8 hours ago, Amppax said:

This seems like a little much... and I tend to be sympathetic to Bishop Schneider and the cardinals who submitted the dubia. 

 He is more of an insider than any of us. And Soviet oppression is not exactly something he has not experienced. It does seem hyperbolic, but he is a man uniquely qualified to know what he is talking about when he says it.

14 hours ago, BarbaraTherese said:

Thinking of you, Nihil - with hope that flu/chest cold might be easing, with prayer too that you will soon be fighting fit and back on deck.

Thank you, it has been horrible. It seems that I did pick up the strain of influenza that has been going around very early this year. Apparently it has been causing pneumonia in some cases, and some elderly people died. Reminds me a lot of the time about ten years ago when my mother and I both came down with something very similar. Hers did develop into pneumonia due, but luckily mine did not.

Yesterday was slightly better than the day before, and today is significantly better than yesterday, so I seem to be past the worst of it. Still coughing quite a lot though.

Thank you for your prayers.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Nihil Obstat said:

 

Thank you, it has been horrible. It seems that I did pick up the strain of influenza that has been going around very early this year. Apparently it has been causing pneumonia in some cases, and some elderly people died. Reminds me a lot of the time about ten years ago when my mother and I both came down with something very similar. Hers did develop into pneumonia due, but luckily mine did not.

Yesterday was slightly better than the day before, and today is significantly better than yesterday, so I seem to be past the worst of it. Still coughing quite a lot though.

Thank you for your prayers.

Really good to see you are probably on the mend, Nihil. 

Not surprised at all to hear it was a horrible experience.  Sometimes we don't realise just how serious these things can get and that does include pneumonia.  This is the first year I had the vaccine injection. Here in Australia, we have had outbreaks over the past couple years, many cases have necessitated hospital admissions.  I did come down with the flu this year but it was not too bad at all and nowhere near as nasty as in the past.  My hope is that the vaccination was the cause of the less debilitating dose of influenza this year and I will be having the injections in future.

Look after yourself and recovery is always as long as recovery takes.  Don't rush it! 

 

Edited December 8, 2016 by BarbaraTherese

[Nihil Obstat]

I should have had the shot earlier, when they first started offering them. Now it does not really matter anymore, but I feel bad that I may have been spreading this over the last few days too. Tried to stay inside, but there are those things that must be done regardless.

[Guest]

27 minutes ago, Nihil Obstat said:

I should have had the shot earlier, when they first started offering them. Now it does not really matter anymore, but I feel bad that I may have been spreading this over the last few days too. Tried to stay inside, but there are those things that must be done regardless.

I wouldn't feel too bad about it - you have "done what you can, leave the rest to God" (St Mary of The Cross MacKillop - Aussie).  A mask might help along with hand washing if there should be a next time - and that would be about all one can do I would think. Sometimes one just have to go out.  Once I was able to go out, I didn't even think of others to be honest, other than hand washing.  I now have those very cheap little white mouth and nose masks one can buy almost anywhere.  Of course, one need take care with wearing a mask of any kind in public nowadays

[Jack4]

http://www.onepeterfive.com/theological-censures-amoris-laetitia-revealed/

I'm surprised this hasn't been mentioned so far. 

In the link, you can find a pdf of the theological critique. 

[Amppax]

3 hours ago, Jack4 said:

http://www.onepeterfive.com/theological-censures-amoris-laetitia-revealed/

I'm surprised this hasn't been mentioned so far. 

In the link, you can find a pdf of the theological critique. 

Oh Steve 

Quote

“The censures are a detailed and technical theological document whose contents are not readily accessible to a non-specialist audience, and are easily misrepresented or misunderstood. Making the document public would impede the cardinals in their task by the media coverage and frequently uninformed debate and polemics it would raise.”

This is my problem with so much of this coverage. It is good to be concerned about this, and we should all pray for our bishops, cardinals, and the Pope, but there is an unhealthy level of involvement at play, I think, from certain sectors. I'm not going to say that anyone here is guilty of this, though perhaps it is a good point for self-examination, but it is good to step back, and realize just what our role as laity is. 

[Jack4]

43 minutes ago, Amppax said:

Oh Steve 

There are some people here who are not "non specialist". There are most who will not "misunderstand" and raise "uninformed debate". 

[Guest]

 

7 hours ago, Amppax said:

but it is good to step back, and realize just what our role as laity is. 

........and that role is......?.........

[Nihil Obstat]

http://reginamag.com/rome-in-eye-of-storm/

Edward Pentin has a sterling reputation. That is something we can count on.

[Guest]

Since Amoris Laetitia is addressed also to "All The Lay Faithful" it is necessary that we, laity, also strive to understand what it is saying and to arrive at conclusions through debate or discussion if one chooses or needs to do so. It is inclusive of our role to do so i.e. understand a Post-Synodal Apostolic Exhortation, by Pope Francis in this instance, addressed also to those of us in the lay state of life. 

There might have been some debate re the dubia of the four cardinals, but to date to my knowledge no debate in this thread anyway re the censure back in June 2016 (appeared on website in July 2016) - not referred to anyway as quoting from the actual censure nor referring to it.  It was the censure only that stated : "contents are not readily accessible to a non-specialist audience, and are easily misrepresented or misunderstood."  And on no other document to my knowledge.

 

 

 

 

[Jack4]

23 scholars sign letter supporting four Cardinals https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/23-catholic-scholars-release-letter-supporting-dubia-the-church-is-facing-a

Two prominent professors ask Pope to address ‘The Misuse of Amoris Laetitia to Support Errors against the Catholic Faith’  https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/promiment-philosophers-ask-pope-francis-to-address-eight-erroneous-position

Edited December 11, 2016 by Jack4

[Guest]

https://youtu.be/VG1_zmn-Ryc  World Over - 2016-12-15 – Amoris Laetitia and the Dubia, Cardinal Raymond Burke with Raymond Arroyo

 

Is Pope Francis trying to help people who can't afford annulments? Aren't they usually approved more often then not if you can afford them? I realize up to a 1000 dollars can be alot of money but most people can come up with it if it means they can marry again with no guilt. On the other hand something seems wrong about someone poor not being able to get an annulment yet someone who can afford it can.

Edited December 17, 2016 by Guest

[Guest]

With that said I see Cardinal Burke's point about not changing the teaching. Yet if everyone can get annulments how is it really different? Although I guess if someone is careless enough to not get an annulment if they can afford it and still try to take Communion they should be called out. It becomes fairly obvious at this point in most cases the person wouldn't be examining their conscience and would be carelessly approaching Christ in the Eucharist. 

Edited December 17, 2016 by Guest