Amppax Posted November 27, 2016 Share Posted November 27, 2016 20 hours ago, Jack4 said: @Amppax, Are you saying that, in those posts, there is more to it than the surface, something which happened in the past was reflected there? Forgive my ignorance of this language, my brother. Yes, that's what I'm saying. I was trying to be witty; I'm not always successful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountrySteve21 Posted November 27, 2016 Share Posted November 27, 2016 One thing I don't get, why do we have to divide ourselves into different groups? I don't think we should be divided into "groups" such as traditionalist's,progressivists etc. It does not help; plus St. Paul in his First Epistle to the Corinthians warns against that. Quote "I appeal to you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree and that there be no dissensions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment." - 1st Corinthians 1:10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack4 Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 27 minutes ago, Amppax said: Yes, that's what I'm saying. Thank you for clarifying. Quote I was trying to be witty; I'm not always successful. Mea culpa, ESL. 23 minutes ago, CountrySteve21 said: One thing I don't get, why do we have to divide ourselves into different groups? I don't think we should be divided into "groups" such as traditionalist's,progressivists etc. It does not help; plus St. Paul in his First Epistle to the Corinthians warns against that. In essentials, unity In non essentials, liberty In all things, charity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 (edited) Quotation re "in essentials unity etc." sometimes attributed to St Augustine but that is challenged. Anyway, St Paul would trump St Augustine in my book. Also, what St Paul stated would be an essential (i.e. unity) - see post by @CountrySteve21. "All things love" is sometimes shaky too as a lived out expression of The Gospel and Catholicism for one - mea culpa. Be that as it may, "Love" would mean agape. "Non essentials" would be where The Church has left a question open for debate. _________________ There are questions open for debate by The Church; however, especially where groups have formed in The Church there can be a tendency at times to state their position as the only position. Edited November 28, 2016 by BarbaraTherese Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack4 Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, BarbaraTherese said: Quotation re "in essentials unity etc." sometimes attributed to St Augustine but that is challenged. I know, but that alone wouldn't change the truth of the statement. Don't you like Hark Herald the Angels Sing? Quote Anyway, St Paul would trump St Augustine in my book. Read the rest of this post: There is no contradiction between Paul and (pseudo) Augustine here. But yes, what you said seems to be correct, though I would phrase it very differently: Scripture would trump the individual writing of a Father. Quote Also, what St Paul stated would be an essential (i.e. unity) - see post by @CountrySteve21. "All things love" is sometimes shaky too as a lived out expression of The Gospel and Catholicism for one - mea culpa. Be that as it may, "Love" would mean agape. Can you explain further? Quote "Non essentials" would be where The Church has left a question open for debate. Choice, here. We (or rather, you) may choose to attend the EF or OF (to put it simply. there are, as you know, some requirements.) _______ What was the context of Paul in 1Cor1 ? 10 I appeal to you, brothers and sisters,[a] in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another in what you say and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly united in mind and thought. 11 My brothers and sisters, some from Chloe’s household have informed me that there are quarrels among you. 12 What I mean is this: One of you says, “I follow Paul”; another, “I follow Apollos”; another, “I follow Cephas”; still another, “I follow Christ.” 13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized in the name of Paul? Let us not forget that he was the person who boldly admonished the then-Pope at Antioch. Edited November 28, 2016 by Jack4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 15 hours ago, CountrySteve21 said: One thing I don't get, why do we have to divide ourselves into different groups? I don't think we should be divided into "groups" such as traditionalist's,progressivists etc. It does not help; plus St. Paul in his First Epistle to the Corinthians warns against that. Well then we should all be traditionalists. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthfinder Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 I feel like this fits here: http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2016/11/for-record-in-latest-interview-pope.html Seminaries as 'rigid' too (it feels like there's an undertone that the most particularly 'rigid' are those with seminarians who are attached to anything traditional) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountrySteve21 Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 4 hours ago, dominicansoul said: Well then we should all be traditionalists. lol Too a degree, after all the Church was not born in the 70s. I would love to see a wider use of the E.F. Missal and if the Pope was to abolish the O.F. Missal I would not complain. However my point was the division can be problematic. Some "trads" for example have a schismatic mentality which undermines the authority of our bishops. On the other hand though, the "liberals" embracing heresy isn't good either. And yes, by my use of labels that makes me a hypocrite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack4 Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 5 hours ago, CountrySteve21 said: Too a degree, after all the Church was not born in the 70s. I would love to see a wider use of the E.F. Missal and if the Pope was to abolish the O.F. Missal I would not complain. That is against the spirit of Vatican II ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountrySteve21 Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 11 hours ago, Jack4 said: That is against the spirit of Vatican II ! My bad https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPu01aXBS1I Much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 (edited) Rad Trads love the Holy Father and all the Pope does is attack them and call them rigid. Won't name the Rad Trads aka best Catholics of all time who was distributing these. Edited November 29, 2016 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack4 Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 (edited) 3 hours ago, CountrySteve21 said: My bad https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPu01aXBS1I Much better. Yeah. It's so wonderful to have Vatican II allow the Church to grow into the modern times. Who in the world likes https://youtu.be/jRY8Bjc-Kw8 Axion Estin, Byzantine tradition https://youtu.be/ZRhb56R_4aE Sogdinan la Slibo, West Syriac tradition https://youtu.be/xyYs3dDoOIw Laku Mara, East Syriac (my!) tradition https://youtu.be/ZVwuc_CNswY Praeconium Paschale ("Exultet"), Roman tradition Can you even compare them with https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbNXqjwh8is (Gather us in) ? Edited November 29, 2016 by Jack4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted November 29, 2016 Author Share Posted November 29, 2016 1 hour ago, Josh said: Rad Trads love the Holy Father and all the Pope does is attack them and call them rigid. Won't name the Rad Trads aka best Catholics of all time who was distributing these. Josh, I do not engage with self-righteousness and temper tantrums. If you want to have a discussion about traditionalists then I am happy to do so, but first cut it out with the outrage. If all you want to do is complain about how mean traditionalists are, then find somewhere else to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 Just now, Nihil Obstat said: Josh, I do not engage with self-righteousness and temper tantrums. If you want to have a discussion about traditionalists then I am happy to do so, but first cut it out with the outrage. If all you want to do is complain about how mean traditionalists are, then find somewhere else to do it. I'm just posting on Phatmass lol Deal with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted November 29, 2016 Author Share Posted November 29, 2016 Just now, Josh said: I'm just posting on Phatmass lol Deal with it. I always treat you with respect. If I cannot expect the same in return, then I guess that is how it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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