Norseman82 Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 (edited) In Genesis 9:5-17, animals were made part of the covenant with Noah, and God said He would demand an accounting from animals as well. Edited November 16, 2016 by Norseman82 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didacus Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 I believe there is nothing of value that God will leave behind and allow to be lost. If there is genuine love towards pets, I cannot see this love being severed in life eternal - thus I cannot imagine how pets/animals are not able to, in a form or other, join us in Heaven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack4 Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 8 hours ago, Didacus said: I believe there is nothing of value that God will leave behind and allow to be lost. Then how do people fall into mortal sin and face eternal damnation? (see also Mat 7: 22, 23) On 11/16/2016 at 0:05 PM, Norseman82 said: In Genesis 9:5-17, animals were made part of the covenant with Noah, and God said He would demand an accounting from animals as well. Yes, and? Quote 9 And I, behold, I establish my covenant with you, and with your seed after you; 10 And with every living creature that is with you, of the fowl, of the cattle, and of every beast of the earth with you; from all that go out of the ark, to every beast of the earth. 11 And I will establish my covenant with you, neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth.... 15 And I will remember my covenant, which is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh. (KJV) The covenant He made with all creation was that He would never bring such a flood again. Quote If there is genuine love towards pets, I cannot see this love being severed in life eternal - thus I cannot imagine how pets/animals are not able to, in a form or other, join us in Heaven. Suppose two spouses love each other dearly ("genuine love"). The wife goes to Heaven. Is it possible for the husband to be damned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didacus Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 15 hours ago, Jack4 said: On 16/11/2016 at 10:07 PM, Didacus said: I believe there is nothing of value that God will leave behind and allow to be lost. Then how do people fall into mortal sin and face eternal damnation? (see also Mat 7: 22, 23) If a soul is sent to hell, the second and eternal death and is thus completely lost, then I would believe that there was nothing in that soul which remained in the image of God and thus nothing of value to be retained. Would God send any amount of love to hell? Any amount of grace? Any amount of charity? All these things He rightly calls His own and his fruits? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, Didacus said: Would God send any amount of love to hell? Any amount of grace? Any amount of charity? All these things He rightly calls His own and his fruits? (BarbaraTherese: Well said. Quote Genisis Ch1 "God created man in his image; in the divine image he created him; male and female he created them. God blessed them, saying: "Be fertile and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it. Have dominion over the fish of the sea, the birds of the air, and all the living things that move on the earth." God also said: "See, I give you every seed-bearing plant all over the earth and every tree that has seed-bearing fruit on it to be your food; 30 and to all the animals of the land, all the birds of the air, and all the living creatures that crawl on the ground, I give all the green plants for food." And so it happened. God looked at everything he had made, and he found it very good. Evening came, and morning followed - the sixth day." Would God consign what is very good to eternal extinction? The CCC 1047 states in the negative. After The Fall, that very goodness is marred and Heaven is closed to the whole of creation and opened again after The Death of Jesus and the "profound common destiny" of the world and the whole of creation is restored - see CCC 1046. Something truly mind boggling and incredible breaks back into the universe with the Death of Jesus. The entire universe with the whole of creation is changed and changed for all time. Edited November 18, 2016 by BarbaraTherese Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norseman82 Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 (edited) On Thursday, November 17, 2016 at 6:13 AM, Jack4 said: Yes, and? No reason to be snotty. On Thursday, November 17, 2016 at 6:13 AM, Jack4 said: The covenant He made with all creation was that He would never bring such a flood again. Read the part about the "accounting" that will be demanded. When do we give account to God? At the judgment. Edited November 20, 2016 by Norseman82 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack4 Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 (edited) 47 minutes ago, Norseman82 said: No reason to be snotty. http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/143534-reminder/ Quote Read the part about the "accounting" that will be demanded. When do we give account to God? At the judgment. Can you explain further? Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you; and just as I gave you the green plants, I give you everything. Only, you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood. For your own lifeblood I will surely require a reckoning: from every animal I will require it and from human beings, each one for the blood of another, I will require a reckoning for human life. Edited November 20, 2016 by Jack4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 Quote Acts Chapter 10:9 http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0839/__PY4.HTM "The next day, while they were on their way and nearing the city, Peter went up to the roof terrace to pray at about noontime. 7 He was hungry and wished to eat, and while they were making preparations he fell into a trance. He saw heaven opened and something resembling a large sheet coming down, lowered to the ground by its four corners. In it were all the earth's four-legged animals and reptiles and the birds of the sky. A voice said to him, "Get up, Peter. Slaughter and eat." But Peter said, "Certainly not, sir. For never have I eaten anything profane and unclean." 15 The voice spoke to him again, a second time, "What God has made clean, you are not to call profane." This happened three times, and then the object was taken up into the sky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 Vespers - Solemnity of Christ The King Quote Psalm 144 (145) The Lord takes pity, his heart is merciful, he is patient and endlessly kind. The Lord is gentle to all – he shows his kindness to all his creation. Let all your creatures proclaim you, O Lord, let your chosen ones bless you. Quote Short Reading Excerpt"For he must be king until he has put all his enemies under his feet and the last of the enemies to be destroyed is death, for everything is to be put under his feet." Quote Final Prayer Almighty, ever-living God, it is your will to unite the entire universe under your beloved Son, Jesus Christ, the King of heaven and earth. Grant freedom to the whole of creation, and let it praise and serve your majesty for ever. Through our Lord Jesus Christ, your Son, who lives and reigns with you and the Holy Spirit, one God, for ever and ever. Amen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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