Pets in Heaven

[BarbTherese]

Tried to put this thread into Debate, but I kept getting a 404 I think it was message. Just as well I had copied the post before attempting to actually post it.

The Reading from Morning Prayer today (10th Nov. 2016) below would seem to indicate that the whole of creation (excluding nothing) is destined to not know corruption i.e. destined for immortality.  How would you interpret it?

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Romans Ch8:18 "For creation awaits with eager expectation the revelation of the children of God; for creation was made subject to futility, not of its own accord but because of the one who subjected it, in hope that creation itself would be set free from slavery to corruption and share in the glorious freedom of the children of God.

My take: At the resurrection of the body, I tend to believe that animals too will be raised along with the whole of creation.  There would not be the Beatific Vision for animals as with humanity and supernatural capability of the human soul, but immortality nevertheless.  "In my Father's House, there are many mansions.  I go to prepare a place for you".  Jesus speaks this before His Death and it is not until after His Death that Heaven and The Beatific Vision is open to mankind.  Therefore, it seems to me, that there is one ultra special mansion for mankind created through the Death of Jesus, while in Heaven there are other types of mansions and one for animals.

Or is there some other way to understand the above?
 

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Renowned Theologian, Servant of God Fr J A Hardon SJ (Cause For Canonization) 

   " Do Pets Go To Heaven "

 

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Catholic Catechism: 1046 For the cosmos, Revelation affirms the profound common destiny of the material world and man:

For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God . . . in hope because the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to decay. . . . We know that the whole creation has been groaning in travail together until now; and not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the first fruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.⁶³⁹

1047 The visible universe, then, is itself destined to be transformed, "so that the world itself, restored to its original state, facing no further obstacles, should be at the service of the just," sharing their glorification in the risen Jesus Christ.⁶⁴⁰

 

Peter Kreeft also gave a good answer.  You will need to scroll down to #19 http://www.peterkreeft.com/topics-more/35-faqs_eternity.htm

[Nihil Obstat]

Since, at least according to Aquinas, animals have material souls, these souls die, unlike ours. But, being purely material, I suppose they could simply be re-formed, according to the will of God.

If I were a less lazy sort of person I might have revised those sentences in order to reduce the obscene amount of commas therein.  

[WhiteLily]

IMO, I do believe pets have a sense on who God is. I don't think they will see the beautific vision, but they will go to a place of happiness, a placed mentioned in the 40 Dreams of St. John Bosco. I do believe that animals, especially dogs, do sense the real presence of Jesus Christ body, blood, soul, and divinity in the Eucharist. 

For example, my dog, everytime she is near a Catholic Church knows where he tabernacle is. Doesn't matter what Catholic Church it is, she will sniff to find Jesus. Another time, I was walking near a Cathedral while Mass was occurring. My dog walked in the side door and I was afraid she was going to start barking. Instead, the Agnus Dei prayer has begun to be prayed, my dog prostrated immediately at the beginning of the Agnus Dei up until the start of Holy Communion. I tried to get her to move, but she wouldn't budge. She was focused on the Eucharist. 

I am not advocating that pets, especially dogs are equal to us or can recieve the Eucharist. I am saying that, since they are a part of God's creation, we see a small imprint of God's love for us through creation.

However, as Dr. Peter Kreeft mentioned, pets can lead us to God or they can distract us from God. We need to look at ourselves and ask ourselves if we are too attached to our pets. But, that doesn't mean that you can't enjoy their company. I know my dog has been a big help for me. 

Daniel 3 57:-90 is a good example on how  creation blesses the Lord. 

Stories of people who are dying, it was reported that they say their beloved pets who preceded their death and has helped them through the dying process. 

IMHO, there will be a place for the animals. By His grace and His will, I believe, that with God all things are possible (Mark 10:27) and he may permit us to see our beloved pets who died. But, in heaven, we will not have that attachment to them because our hearts are set on worshiping God! They will be so busy playing with other animals, we will see...the wolf shall be a guest of the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the young goat; The calf and the young lion shall browse together, with a little child to guide them (Isaiah 11:6).

 

As mentioned, this is my opinion. We do not know for sure. But, it would not hurt to talk to Jesus and ask Him about maybe seeing your pet if, God Willing, you make it to Heaven. 

 

 

Edited November 10, 2016 by WhiteLily

[Gabriela]

Grigio.

[Guest]

I think theologically it is not settled - and therefore open to opinions.......always risky business when I start to think.......

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WhiteLily: "For example, my dog, everytime she is near a Catholic Church knows where he tabernacle is. Doesn't matter what Catholic Church it is, she will sniff to find Jesus."

What you said above reminds my of my previous Jack Russell Cross, Sadie.  She was still with me in my previous parish and when I very often went to weekday Mass.  All I had to say was "Coming to see Jesus" and she would lead me (rather than I lead her) to The Church door.  I would tie her up just outside.  Nowadays, both my little cat, Missie, and my Maltese Cross, Buddie, know what it means if I say "Prayer Time".  Missie could not care less and wanders off, while Buddie always goes to his bed near my Prayer Space.............my computer chair.   I have a statue of Our Lady on the top shelf all on its own and underneath an image of "Our Lady Untier of Knots".  I do hope that Our Lady likes a real challenge!

7 hours ago, Gabriela said:

Grigio.

Not to sure at all what you mean by the above, Gabriela, but going by what Mr Google told me about "Grigio", I must qualify it by Penfolds Bin 9 Cabernet any day....... and I could drink it all day every day!

8 hours ago, Nihil Obstat said:

Since, at least according to Aquinas, animals have material souls, these souls die, unlike ours. But, being purely material, I suppose they could simply be re-formed, according to the will of God.

If I were a less lazy sort of person I might have revised those sentences in order to reduce the obscene amount of commas therein.  

Woweee.............I do not travel alone.............

......said the block to the butcher.........

9 minutes ago, BarbaraTherese said:

I would tie her up just outside.

............poor Sadie.............talk about lazy!

[CatherineM]

Believing in the rainbow bridge keeps me sane. 

[Jack4]

5 hours ago, BarbaraTherese said:

Not to sure at all what you mean by [Grigio], Gabriela,

Possibly this:

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When returning home one night through a bad and dangerous part of the town, he saw a magnificent dog of huge size following him. At first he was frightened but quickly came to see that the dog was friendly. The animal walked by his side and accompanied him to the door of his house and then went away. This happened five, six or eight times. He called the dog Grigio. 

What did it mean? He was soon to learn. 

Hastening home by himself, some time after the first appearance of the dog, two shots were fired at him by an assassin from behind a tree. Both shots missed their mark, but his assailant then rushed at and grappled with him. At that moment, Grigio appeared and sank his teeth into the flesh of the would-be murderer, who fled away shrieking with pain. 

On a second occasion, two men lay in wait for him and threw a sack over his head. This time it seemed all was over with him, but Grigio unexpectedly came to his rescue and jumped at one of the ruffians, seizing him by the throat. The other fled in terror. Don Bosco had then to liberate the first from the fangs of Grigio, who still held him by the throat. 

A third time, no less than twelve hired assassins, armed with clubs, lay in ambush, into which Don Bosco walked unawares. Again, escape seemed impossible, but once more Grigio bounded into the midst of the group, and his fierce look and savage growl proved enough. The men made off as quickly as they could. 

Sometimes the dog entered Don Bosco's house, but always with some reason, either to accompany him on a night journey or to prevent his leaving the house. No amount of animal instinct could explain these unexpected appearances of the dog. 

On one of these occasions, when Don Bosco tried to go out, the great dog lay across the door and growled in such a menacing way that St. John was forced to remain at home. And it was well that he did so, for shortly afterwards a gentleman arrived to warn him not to leave the house on any consideration, as the heretics lay in wait to kill him. 

As long as the persecution lasted, Grigio never failed to be at his post and when the danger passed he was seen no more. Whence he came or whither he went no one knew.

 

 

[WhiteLily]

6 hours ago, BarbaraTherese said:

I think theologically it is not settled - and therefore open to opinions.......always risky business when I start to think.......

What you said above reminds my of my previous Jack Russell Cross, Sadie.  She was still with me in my previous parish and when I very often went to weekday Mass.  All I had to say was "Coming to see Jesus" and she would lead me (rather than I lead her) to The Church door.  I would tie her up just outside.  Nowadays, both my little cat, Missie, and my Maltese Cross, Buddie, know what it means if I say "Prayer Time".  Missie could not care less and wanders off, while Buddie always goes to his bed near my Prayer Space.............my computer chair.   I have a statue of Our Lady on the top shelf all on its own and underneath an image of "Our Lady Untier of Knots".  I do hope that Our Lady likes a real challenge!

Not to sure at all what you mean by the above, Gabriela, but going by what Mr Google told me about "Grigio", I must qualify it by Penfolds Bin 9 Cabernet any day....... and I could drink it all day every day!

Woweee.............I do not travel alone.............

......said the block to the butcher.........

............poor Sadie.............talk about lazy!

I have a Jack Russel/Dachsund. :-)

[dominicansoul]

Maybe they are the creatures that Scripture speaks about roaming about in Paradise.  They don't look like the animals we knew, but they are in a glorified form?  

Or those could be extraterrestrials... 

[Guest]

Hi DS

I think animals might/could have some sort of 'glorified' state meaning a change from subjects of futility and slavery to corruption as stated by St Paul, quoted in my OP.  And, of course, St Paul does state "hope" - seems to me it is a hope only - not a guarantee/promise in Scripture.

20 hours ago, BarbaraTherese said:

"For creation awaits with eager expectation the revelation of the children of God; for creation was made subject to futility, not of its own accord but because of the one who subjected it, in hope that creation itself would be set free from slavery to corruption and share in the glorious freedom of the children of God.

If there are extraterrestrials then they too were created by God and are a part of creation.

1 hour ago, dominicansoul said:

 

4 hours ago, WhiteLily said:

I have a Jack Russel/Dachsund. :-)

  Don't know much about Dachshunds, but Jack Russel's are a gentle, faithful and intelligent breed.  My JR, Sadie, was crossed with a Fox Terrier.

 

[Jack4]

23 hours ago, Nihil Obstat said:

Since, at least according to Aquinas, animals have material souls, these souls die, unlike ours. But, being purely material, I suppose they could simply be re-formed, according to the will of God.

For me, Aquinas settles it. He never writes w/o thinking first. 

 Among the Scholastic Doctors, the chief and master of all towers Thomas Aquinas, who, as Cajetan observes, because "he most venerated the ancient doctors of the Church, in a certain way seems to have inherited the intellect of all."... "His teaching above that of others, the canonical writings alone excepted, enjoys such a precision of language, an order of matters, a truth of conclusions, that those who hold to it are never found swerving from the path of truth, and he who dare assail it will always be suspected of error.".... the chief and special glory of Thomas, one which he has shared with none of the Catholic Doctors, is that the Fathers of Trent made it part of the order of conclave to lay upon the altar, together with sacred Scripture and the decrees of the supreme Pontiffs, the Summa of Thomas Aquinas, whence to seek counsel, reason, and inspiration.

[Guest]

No disagreement with Thomas Aquinas here

Dust we are and to dust we return (while our souls are immortal).  On the last day, however, our bodies will be raised and united again with our souls - then why could God not raise the material body and material soul of animals which have returned to dust, along with our human material bodies.

On ‎10‎/‎11‎/‎2016 at 0:07 PM, Nihil Obstat said:

Since, at least according to Aquinas, animals have material souls, these souls die, unlike ours. But, being purely material, I suppose they could simply be re-formed, according to the will of God.

"With God all things are possible" (Matthew Ch19)  God is not limited by human reason, nor by human imagination.

I cannot conceive (reason and imagination) of a God who creates out of Love and finds His Creation good - only in order to destroy and annihilate what is good and that which He Loves.  As St Paul states, quoted previously, the whole of creation waits in hope.

[Guest]

Apologist at Catholic Answers:   Do Pets Go To Heaven?

 

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"Animals have a material soul that ceases to exist when they die. Humans have a spiritual soul that continues to exist after death. But does this mean that animals will not be present in the afterlife? That is a question to which we do not have an answer. There does however seem to be hints that God will restore the universe at the end of time:

 

 

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The visible universe, then, is itself destined to be transformed, "so that the world itself, restored to its original state, facing no further obstacles, should be at the service of the just," sharing their glorification in the risen Jesus Christ (CCC 1047).

As animals are part of the "visible universe," it seems possible that they too might share "their glorification in the risen Jesus Christ." It might be possible that God might also re-create those animals who have been a pleasure and comfort to man in his earthly journey. We don't know in this life, but it is something for which we can hope.

Explain to your children that heaven will have all that is needed for our perfect happiness. If they need their pet with them in heaven in order to be perfectly happy, their pet will be there. As adults we realize that God alone suffices for perfect happiness; but we also know that God, in his great love for us, gives us more than our mere necessities and that his love is reflected to us in his creation. It may be that our animal friends' presence in the next life will be God's gift to us."

 

 

 

The above final paragraph is a good way of answering children's questions without complicating things nor responding outside of Church teaching.

I recall the Dominican nun who taught us in college.......it ran something like this:

 "I want you all to close your eyes and think of what will make you more happy than anything else"..........minute or two of silence transpires

"What you have imagined will be yours in Heaven"............all girl class collapses into laughter

Sister B "Girls! More decorum in my class please!"

I've never forgotten the above and as I have journeyed over the years, of course what would make me most happy has changed numerous times.  Sister was spot on theologically.

[Jack4]

4 hours ago, BarbaraTherese said:

I cannot conceive (reason and imagination) of a God who...

I'll get back to you, just want to note something now. 

You wouldn't be a Christian if you believe only what you conceive...

(if you will tolerate a pun: ...unless you are the Theotokos)

Edited November 11, 2016 by Jack4

[Jack4]

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 esse sequitur operationem et operationem sequitur esse. That is, the sort of thing a thing does follows upon its way of existing, so we can understand its way of existing by the sort of thing it does.

It order to posit some existence apart from matter, there must be some operation or action of the thing that is separable from matter. While there are degrees of immateriality with sensation, imagination, memory, etc, all of these necessarily involve matter, as they are powers of some organ (in all animals, including men and cats)

Only one faculty of man has an operation separable from matter, namely the intellect (and following upon it the will). By intellect we understand not imagination, memory or the estimative (or cognitive sense in man), which high animals have (thus they can "learn" and exhibit some "intelligence" as the term is wont to be used in modern studies), but we understand the grasp of intelligible forms, which are only apprehended abstracted from every condition of matter. While we indeed think about them using our imagination/memory, the actual apprehension of them is necessarily apart from matter. Therefore, there is an operation separable from matter, and hence we can reason a principle of existence separable.

But brute animals lack this faculty, even the most "intelligent" among them. Now you might ask, how do we know that? Well the only thing, outside of theology, we have to rely on is our observation, and they do not exhibit any actions that betray such intelligence. I can know that Bob is intelligent (in this sense, even if he is a very stupid man), even though I don't have his inner experience, because I am intelligent and can reason from the effects of his behavior that he is like me, at least in this general way. Whereas, the actions which disclose such intelligence in other man are wholly absent in even the most clever animals. Hence there is no basis to reason they possess such.
....

 While God could supernaturally preserve an animal, even He could not cause its soul to exist without the body. [The soul is the form of the body.] That is what a soul is, just like sphere is the form of a basketball, and you cannot have the shape without the matter that is shaped.

Unless the soul has some principle of existence that is beyond being the form of the body, it simply cannot exist without the body. And so, we are looking for something among natural principles. God could recreate Fido. He could prevent Fido from dying, but Fido is not ex principiis naturae immortal. Even man is only immortal ex parte formae, and not simply.