p0lar_bear Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 Apotheoun, Great stuff. However, for those who might not understand this: All this, while true, does not mean that Mary is the forth person of the Trinity or that she is in anyway equal to God. Nor is this theosis exclusive to Mary. It is what we will all receive when, with God's grace, we enter heaven. (Not that Apotheoun is putting Mary as equal to God). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorphRC Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 Sounds Cool. But Im a little dodgy on us becoming divine. [quote]so that man becomes a real participant in the life and glory of the Trinity.[/quote] What would happen then? I hear a lot of people going on about peace, love, a better 'life', what does the Church teach for that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorphRC Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 [quote name='p0lar_bear' date='Jun 30 2004, 12:47 AM'] Apotheoun, Great stuff. However, for those who might not understand this: All this, while true, does not mean that Mary is the forth person of the Trinity or that she is in anyway equal to God. Nor is this theosis exclusive to Mary. It is what we will all receive when, with God's grace, we enter heaven. (Not that Apotheoun is putting Mary as equal to God). [/quote] Maybe like. How a person gets cremated, they fall back into the earth and rejoin it as a creature..lol I DONT KNOW. To above me right now.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey's_Girl Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 Wow...this is an amazing thread. Grace is such a [b]shocking[/b] concept, really. Why would God bother, you know? He is truly beyond our comprehension. :ph34r: "Amazing love! How can it be that you, my God, would die for me?" MG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 (edited) [quote name='p0lar_bear' date='Jun 29 2004, 09:17 AM']Apotheoun, Great stuff. However, for those who might not understand this: All this, while true, does not mean that Mary is the forth person of the Trinity or that she is in anyway equal to God. Nor is this theosis exclusive to Mary. It is what we will all receive when, with God's grace, we enter heaven. (Not that Apotheoun is putting Mary as equal to God).[/quote] The Fathers of the Church are insistent that deified man's participation in the divine nature does not mean that he participates in either the divine essence ([i]ousia[/i]), which is and remains wholly incommunicable and incomprehensible, nor in the personal ([i]hypostatic[/i]) reality of any one of the three divine persons, because personality is not something that can be communicated or imparted from one being to another. The divine essence, and the personal ([i]hypostatic[/i]) reality of the three divine persons, are utterly transcendent and incommunicable properties of God. So man is not absorbed by an essential participation in the divine nature, nor are human persons added to the Trinity; instead, through the process of deification ([i]theosis[/i]) man participates in the uncreated divine energies ([i]energia[/i]) which flow out from the divine essence as a gift to man from the three divine persons. In other words, by a completely unmerited gift of grace, man is elevated to a participation in the divine nature through the uncreated divine energies ([i]energia[/i]), and this involves no essential change, nor personal ([i]hypostatic[/i]) addition, to either God or man; instead, it entails an abiding communion ([i]koinonia[/i]) of life and love between the Trinity and humanity. Edited June 29, 2004 by Apotheoun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p0lar_bear Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 Apotheoun, I agree with you, I was just trying to bring it down a couple levels for those who might have trouble understanding you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 [quote name='p0lar_bear' date='Jun 29 2004, 09:17 AM']Nor is this theosis exclusive to Mary. [/quote] Correct. Mary is simply the exemplar of redeemed and deified humanity. Everyone who perseveres in grace shall be divinized, and will become a son of God in the only begotten Son of God. Deification is salvation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 [quote name='p0lar_bear' date='Jun 29 2004, 01:29 PM'] Apotheoun, I agree with you, I was just trying to bring it down a couple levels for those who might have trouble understanding you. [/quote] Yes, I understand, and I appreciate your contributions. The important thing is that people know about this most powerful mystery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorphRC Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 This is very complicated :S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JeffCR07 Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 Confusion is probably added because the Eastern Rites have a more developed Doctrine on theosis than we Westerners do I've been doing some research into it, and it all makes sense, and its super awesome, but people in the Roman right just arn't exposed to it as much. yay for the Universal Church! lol - Your Brother in Christ, Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorphRC Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 [quote name='JeffCR07' date='Jun 30 2004, 11:14 PM'] Confusion is probably added because the Eastern Rites have a more developed Doctrine on theosis than we Westerners do I've been doing some research into it, and it all makes sense, and its super awesome, but people in the Roman right just arn't exposed to it as much. yay for the Universal Church! lol - Your Brother in Christ, Jeff [/quote] Lol. Guess if i were catholic id hope the west is up on it..POPE..is in the west Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JeffCR07 Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 hahaha, the Pope is up on it, so is the Magisterium in general, just not the laity. Its kind of like the east focuses a lot on mysticism and fasting (every wednesday and friday!) while the west focuses a lot on reason (Aquinus-style, lol) and plenty of other things. It isnt that there arn't western mystics or eastern apologists, its just that there is an emphasis shift. They tend to think a lot more about theosis because its more prominent in their Holy Tradition....which is super cool, I think us Latin Riters should focus more on it as well! yay church, lol - Your Brother in Christ, Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary's Knight, La Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 (edited) just an aside but it reminds me of psalms "what is man that you care for him... yet you have made him little less than a god" all of this talk though is a really fancy way for explaining not only what salvation truely is but in essence why it's necessary in order to be face to face with God which in a sense is that the finite would in effect be annihilated (sp?) in the presence of the infinite (basic laws of logic one thing is not another) because in a way there would be no room for it but God "the in-finite" rather than edge us "the finite" out of the picture would prefer to dwell in us. which in order for that our souls have to be in a state that allows it, namely purified/saved/(add term here). In a way I don't like some quotes from mystics cuz it's really dang easy to misunderstand them and then you're left questioning your faith. do any apologists here wanna write a book [u]Mysticism for Idiots: Avoiding Misunderstanding Greater Catholic Minds[/u] Edited June 30, 2004 by Mary's Knight, La Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatcatholic Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 [quote name='Mary's Knight, La' date='Jun 30 2004, 10:18 AM'] do any apologists here wanna write a book [u]Mysticism for Idiots: Avoiding Misunderstanding Greater Catholic Minds[/u] [/quote] hehe, great idea! i'll get right on that........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorphRC Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 [quote name='JeffCR07' date='Jul 1 2004, 01:41 AM'] hahaha, the Pope is up on it, so is the Magisterium in general, just not the laity. Its kind of like the east focuses a lot on mysticism and fasting (every wednesday and friday!) while the west focuses a lot on reason (Aquinus-style, lol) and plenty of other things. It isnt that there arn't western mystics or eastern apologists, its just that there is an emphasis shift. They tend to think a lot more about theosis because its more prominent in their Holy Tradition....which is super cool, I think us Latin Riters should focus more on it as well! yay church, lol - Your Brother in Christ, Jeff [/quote] Just Checkin How does the Church promote this information? I never knew about it until I read the Catechism and when I read it, I was like, I hope I aint thinking the wrong thing, IE: We become gods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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