Clinton Emails: Insulting Attempt to Manipulate Catholic Church

[KnightofChrist]

20 minutes ago, Peace said:

Agreed.

If Trump (or someone else who similarly advocated sexual assault) was Catholic, died, and she said that he should be denied a Catholic funeral because of his prior statements or actions, in the case where the bishop arleady allowed for a funeral, I would take issue with it as well. I do not think it is our place to say.

Are you misrepresenting positions here? As far as I can read at this late hour I don't see where anyone said the funeral should have been denied. The main objection was the praise, honor and respect that was given that should have not been given. And while excommunication was mentioned it was  purposed as an act of Mercy so the person would have been encouraged to repent and to prevent others from being mislead into sin. And I can see the same point being made for someone that advocated all their adult life in favor of rape with little to no objections. 

 

[dominicansoul]

53 minutes ago, Peace said:

Agreed.

If Trump (or someone else who similarly advocated sexual assault) was Catholic, died, and she said that he should be denied a Catholic funeral because of his prior statements or actions, in the case where the bishop arleady allowed for a funeral, I would take issue with it as well. I do not think it is our place to say.

youve misunderstood me, or maybe I don't explain myself very well.  she could have her catholic funeral.  But  I really really really don't think   she should be having an elaborate catholic funeral at a large cathedral celebrated by a bishop surrounded  by fawning admirers and a tv audience  all for her tireless work with the democrat party.  

She should've been publicly excommunicated for her active engagement in keeping abortion legal.  This should have been done long ago before she died.  

when you think about it, supporting abortion is supporting sexual assault on a grander scale, more so than trumps words could ever equal. Legal Abortion is a Sexual predators dream come true.  

Edited October 18, 2016 by dominicansoul

[Gabriela]

If she'd been publicly excommunicated, could she still have had a funeral in a Catholic Church?

[dominicansoul]

I would hope she would have had a very public conversion.  That after all is the church's goal when excommunicating someone.  But she was never publicly called out  for her loyal support to planned parenthood.  

as it is now, Catholics who publicly support abortion are hardly chastised for it.  Especially politicians.  They continue to receive Holy Communion as if it doesn't matter at all..  at my  parish, there are plenty of elected Democrats.  People are wont to kiss their hands after Mass more so than the priest's.  They are pretty powerful people in my community, and they enjoy all the honor people shower on them.  I'm a weak shy sort and yet I'm the only one who stands up to them.  I consider them my friends, but at our after Mass breakfasts, where conversations always tend to be political, they have been exasperated by my opinions.  It's because no matter how unpopular it is, I have to be honest with them.  I wouldn't have much of a conscience if I didn't try to awaken theirs...

[LittleWaySoul]

7 hours ago, Gabriela said:

If she'd been publicly excommunicated, could she still have had a funeral in a Catholic Church?

Actually I'm not sure. Excommunication bars people from Sacraments or holding office in the Church so it would make sense if it prevented a Catholic funeral too, but I'm not sure on this point. I should check the Code. Or @Sponsa-Christi could pop in and illuminate us.  

[CountrySteve21]

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/_P4C.HTM

 

I thought the answer was no. The code of canon law does mention who is to be denied a funeral, I'd imagine a public figure who supports abortion would fall under the category of "manifest sinner" but idk

 

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/_P4C.HTM

 

I thought the answer was no. The code of canon law does mention who is to be denied a funeral, I'd imagine a public figure who supports abortion would fall under the category of "manifest sinner" but idk

 

[Amppax]

1 minute ago, CountrySteve21 said:

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/_P4C.HTM

 

I thought the answer was no. The code of canon law does mention who is to be denied a funeral, I'd imagine a public figure who supports abortion would fall under the category of "manifest sinner" but idk

 

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/_P4C.HTM

 

I thought the answer was no. The code of canon law does mention who is to be denied a funeral, I'd imagine a public figure who supports abortion would fall under the category of "manifest sinner" but idk

 

However, note the next canon: "If any doubt occurs, the local ordinary is to be consulted, and his judgment must be followed." 

[CountrySteve21]

4 minutes ago, Amppax said:

However, note the next canon: "If any doubt occurs, the local ordinary is to be consulted, and his judgment must be followed." 

But would there be any room for doubt  concerning someone who publicly worked for abortion?

[LittleWaySoul]

5 hours ago, CountrySteve21 said:

But would there be any room for doubt  concerning someone who publicly worked for abortion?

Not sure. I don't know the person you're talking about. 

I think I agree with @dominicansoul that a massive cathedral funeral with the bishop may have been imprudent in this case, at least on the basis of what little she's told us. But again, I wouldn't presume to know all of the details of the situation. 

[Anomaly]

What about Pelosi, Biden, or Kaine?   If they died twenty years from now without changing the way they vote and support pro abortion legislation, should they have a Catholic funeral Mass celebrated by their local Bishop?

[<3 PopeFrancis]

On 10/17/2016 at 9:11 PM, Peace said:

Is it scandalous for a layperson to publicly chastise her priests and bishop concerning matters and decisions on which they have superior knowledge than she does?

These are the politic; incidentals. We and our unborn future are Holocaust ed every second. 

[LittleWaySoul]

5 hours ago, Anomaly said:

What about Pelosi, Biden, or Kaine?   If they died twenty years from now without changing the way they vote and support pro abortion legislation, should they have a Catholic funeral Mass celebrated by their local Bishop?

A fair point. Though this seems more clear because these people are practically household names, whereas the woman @dominicansoul is speaking of is likely much less well-known. (Correct me if I'm wrong though).

[dominicansoul]

She's very well known in these parts.  Just like the democrats in my parish.  Obscure to the nation at large yet vital to the democrat political machine in my area.      

im sure pelosi, Biden, and kaine will have elaborate catholic funerals. Remember ted kennedys?  He was flaunted as a hero to the poor.  Nauseating.  

[Peace]

On 10/18/2016 at 3:04 PM, LittleWaySoul said:

Not sure. I don't know the person you're talking about. 

I think I agree with @dominicansoul that a massive cathedral funeral with the bishop may have been imprudent in this case, at least on the basis of what little she's told us. But again, I wouldn't presume to know all of the details of the situation. 

I wonder how practical this really is.  Let's take the case of Ted Kennedy (or perhaps even President Kennedy) as an example.

A lot of people are going to want to attend the funeral. At whatever church the funeral is held at, most likely all of the pews are going to be filled. You are going to have to have it at a very large church in order to accommodate everyone who would like to attend. I suppose that the Bishop could say "This man was pro-choice so let's find the smallest possible church in our diocese so that nobody will get an impression that we are OK with his pro-choice views". Does that work? People who would like to attend cannot? And y ou are still going to have a ton of TV reporters outside of the church and tons of people standing outside trying to get in even if you do it at a very small church. . . .

Let's stay that his family or his many friends want to give him an elaborate procession from the funeral home to the site of the Church.  It is not like the Church can stop anyone from doing that, can She? What is the Bishop supposed to say exactly? "You guys have to find the cheapest and drabbest looking car for him to arrive in so that nobody gets the impression that we are OK with him being pro-choice"?

What if his many family members and friends want to say some nice words for him during the funeral ceremony?  The Bishop is supposed to be like "Nah. Even though you are a family member and you love him, you can't give him an elaborate speech cause he was pro-choice. Keep it short so nobody gets the wrong impression that there were good things about this man." ?

Once you go down the route of allowing someone to have a Catholic funeral in the first place, the whole thing will seemingly just look petty and vindictive if you say "We grudgingly  allow you to have a funeral, as long as it isn't a nice funeral, and as long as only a limited number of people are permitted to show the deceased a small amount of respect."  If you are going to go down this route, it seems to me that you should just not give the person a Catholic funeral in the first place. Once you agree that a person is entitled to a Catholic funeral, I don't quite see how you are going to get away with putting limits on how nice it can be without seeming vindictive, foolish, or impractical.

Lastly, when you have a funeral you are offering the Mass for the deceased, right? If the deceased person is not in a state of mortal sin God will at some point give him a glorified body and allow him into His glory. So I don't really see how having a funeral at a nice Church or allowing many people to attend is supposed to give the deceased any more than what has/will already be given to him.

But those are just my thoughts on it. I can understand the concept of what you are saying in principle I suppose.

[LittleWaySoul]

@Peace I hadn't thought of it that way! Hm, that makes a lot of sense.