Daredevil and Catholicism

[dUSt]

Does anybody watch Marvel's Daredevil on Netflix?

So, he's Catholic, and has frequent interactions with a priest. What are your thoughts on how the church is represented?

[LittleWaySoul]

ME ME ME.

Okay so I love this show despite the gratuitous violence. I think there are a lot of really cool Catholic elements and Christian moral principles in it (especially in season 2 oh my gosh there's a great recurring theme about whether the end justifies the means and the sanctity of all human life).

The scenes with the priest are, on the whole, good, but they definitely read like it's someone from outside the Church doing their best to portray the Church, you know? That in itself is refreshing for secular media, but I definitely see points where I'm like, "Ehhh that's slightly different advice than a real Catholic priest would give," or "Hey, this doesn't look quite like a Catholic Church would look."

I think they tried to make Matt a bit more Catholic in season two, to be honest (have you seen season 2?). It felt like a tiny bit of a side note to his life in season one, but in season two there were several moments, even outside of Church, where it was really explicit. I have one scene in particular in mind. DO NOT READ IT IF YOU DON'T WANT STUFF SPOILED (from Season 2, episode 7):

The scene where Matt and Karen are going over case files and they get in a discussion about whether or not it's good for the Punisher to be killing criminals instead of bringing them to justice. Things get heated because Matt (and Daredevil) is wrestling with this issue at this point in the show. They're arguing and Matt says something like, "It's not his decision who lives or dies. That's up to God!" Then Karen blurts out something like, "You have to admit it's effective" and instantly regrets it though she doesn't retract it. Things get awkward and tense and ultimately Matt asks her to leave for the night. You can really get a sense that Matt has deep beliefs about the sanctity of life and God's power over life and death. His Catholicism feels more real than ever in this scene.

Not only that, but the entire dichotomy between lawyer-by-day-vigilante-by-night is somewhat Catholic. Catholicism is seen as this rigid system with all of these "oppressive" rules (analogous to law) and yet it's freeing and ultimately just, grace is "brutal" at times, but ultimately merciful (analogous to Matt's vigilante justice). Matt/Daredevil embody the both/and of Catholicism in this way. 

I see this series as somewhat like a Flannery O'Connor work, especially because of its gruesome violence. It really does seem excessive at times and it is outright shocking. And yet, like O'Connor's works, I think the brutality of the show serves as a good analogy of the difficulties of the spiritual life, the violence of grace in a sinner's heart, and a take-it-to-the-extreme display of various philosophical moral conundrums.

So yeah, I'm a fan. I'd love to hear other people's thoughts!

[Peace]

I haven't seen the show but maybe now I will check it out.

[LittleWaySoul]

1 minute ago, Peace said:

I haven't seen the show but maybe now I will check it out.

I'm really pumped about the entire Defenders saga, actually. Jessica Jones was pretty good too (though fair warning, there were several pretty explicit sex scenes [skippable, from what I recall] and a LOT of disturbing violence/behavior/implications etc). I'm pretty excited to watch Luke Cage as well. I love the fact that there's an African American superhero with his own show in popular mainstream media and I already love Luke Cage as a character from seeing him in Jessica Jones.

[PhuturePriest]

Interesting. Deacon Stephen Greydanus was just speaking about Daredevil and Catholicism on Catholic Answers Live.

[LittleWaySoul]

1 hour ago, PhuturePriest said:

Interesting. Deacon Stephen Greydanus was just speaking about Daredevil and Catholicism on Catholic Answers Live.

Oooh what did he say?

[PhuturePriest]

20 hours ago, LittleWaySoul said:

Oooh what did he say?

He said he hadn't watched much of it yet, but that the Catholic themes were very impressive and positive for Hollywood, even while specific stuff like the representation of confession not being a completely accurate picture.

[Amppax]

Daredevil is excellent. I really can't add anything to what LWS said above, though I'll say I thought season one did a better job of being "Catholic" than season two. 

[LittleWaySoul]

On 10/13/2016 at 9:27 PM, PhuturePriest said:

He said he hadn't watched much of it yet, but that the Catholic themes were very impressive and positive for Hollywood, even while specific stuff like the representation of confession not being a completely accurate picture.

An excellent summation.

On 10/13/2016 at 10:56 PM, Amppax said:

Daredevil is excellent. I really can't add anything to what LWS said above, though I'll say I thought season one did a better job of being "Catholic" than season two. 

Huh. Maybe I'm forgetting things from season one then. I think there was more explicit Catholicism in season one (like when he talks to the priest and goes to confession), but I think season two had cooler Catholic themes and showed Matt's Catholicism lived out in everyday life better. It's been over a year since I've seen season one though.

[Peace]

I started watching it.  It is kind of an interesting show. I know that Daredevil is supposed to be the good guy and that Kingpin is supposed to be the evil guy, but for some reason I can't help but root for Kingpin.

Ever since he made the omelet. I love a good omelet.

Or maybe I just have a corrupt sense of morals or something.

It is kind of an interesting show because there are things about the good guy that I don't like, and I can sympathize with the bad guy a bit, cause of the stuff that happened to him when he was a child . . .

 

[LittleWaySoul]

15 hours ago, Peace said:

I started watching it.  It is kind of an interesting show. I know that Daredevil is supposed to be the good guy and that Kingpin is supposed to be the evil guy, but for some reason I can't help but root for Kingpin.

Ever since he made the omelet. I love a good omelet.

Or maybe I just have a corrupt sense of morals or something.

It is kind of an interesting show because there are things about the good guy that I don't like, and I can sympathize with the bad guy a bit, cause of the stuff that happened to him when he was a child . . .

Yeah, I felt similarly. Clearly Fisk is a monster, but they do a good job of showing his humanity through that. As for Daredevil, I definitely had times in season one where I didn't like what he was doing. I think they toned those parts of him down in season two. Perhaps that's why I thought he seemed more Catholic there?

Oh no, I tired sharing a video but I'm getting a 403 error again, @dUSt. 

[CountrySteve21]

I haven't watched an episode yet, but the trailer to it was amesome.

Thank you LittleWay for your description of it as well btw

[He is Risen!]

I wanted to get into this show but a few episodes in there was a really gruesome scene that was difficult for me to stomach, it is super violent all around but after that particular part it was just too much.  Also, I have a few blind relatives and had to laugh when Daredevil could do things like find a keyhole in a door with his key on the first try without even touching the door.  I know he's a superhero and all but still... It looks like it has some interesting story lines though.

[Peace]

I finished the first season of Daredevil. The priest was OK, but I dunno how I feel about the main superhero being Catholic. You would think that a Catholic superhero would be able to come up with better solutions than beating people half to death in order to obtain information from them. He doesn't exactly represent the faith too well, in my opinion. At least not in season 1.  But perhaps he is a work in progress. That would be cool to see, if by the end of the series he is able to develop in his faith and make better moral choices because of it. At least he doesn't intentionally kill people.

I started watching the first season of Luke Cage too. Thus far Luke Cage seems to be slightly more interesting to me than Daredevil. I don't know why. Maybe it is because the character in Luke Cage has more stereotypical superhero like qualities (massive strength, being bulletproof, etc.) that make him seem cooler? The cinematography and use of music in Luke Cage also are a little better done, I think. Daredevil has a better villain and fight scenes, at least so far. How is Remy from House of Cards going to be your villain?

I am pretty much hooked on the series now though. Maybe I will try Jessica Jones next.

Edited October 17, 2016 by Peace

[LittleWaySoul]

16 hours ago, He is Risen! said:

I wanted to get into this show but a few episodes in there was a really gruesome scene that was difficult for me to stomach, it is super violent all around but after that particular part it was just too much.  Also, I have a few blind relatives and had to laugh when Daredevil could do things like find a keyhole in a door with his key on the first try without even touching the door.  I know he's a superhero and all but still... It looks like it has some interesting story lines though.

Completely fair. I definitely think the violence is a bit much. I also think they made an effort in season two to make his blindness a bit more realistic, despite his supernatural abilities. It felt a bit inconsistent, but I think they really wanted to convey that yes, he is supposed to be blind.

2 hours ago, Peace said:

I finished the first season of Daredevil. The priest was OK, but I dunno how I feel about the main superhero being Catholic. You would think that a Catholic superhero would be able to come up with better solutions than beating people half to death in order to obtain information from them. He doesn't exactly represent the faith too well, in my opinion. At least not in season 1.  But perhaps he is a work in progress. That would be cool to see, if by the end of the series he is able to develop in his faith and make better moral choices because of it. At least he doesn't intentionally kill people.

I started watching the first season of Luke Cage too. Thus far Luke Cage seems to be slightly more interesting to me than Daredevil. I don't know why. Maybe it is because the character in Luke Cage has more stereotypical superhero like qualities (massive strength, being bulletproof, etc.) that make him seem cooler? The cinematography and use of music in Luke Cage also are a little better done, I think. Daredevil has a better villain and fight scenes, at least so far. How is Remy from House of Cards going to be your villain?

I am pretty much hooked on the series now though. Maybe I will try Jessica Jones next.

Yeah. I think Matt's deal is that he wants to be good and just, but struggles with violence etc. Still, though, in the first season his Catholicism seemed somewhat... artificial? The writers definitely give that vibe of someone who isn't Catholic trying to portray a Catholic character (though I think Charlie Cox IS Catholic; he even played St. Josemaria Escriva in There Be Dragons). There's just something about being Catholic that others can't understand without having experienced it. It changes every facet of your life. If I had my way, Daredevil would have at least struggled a lot more with the violence he uses. That's another thing that I think got better in season two, though.

Still pumped for Luke Cage, woo! I've avoided it for a while because I've got some papers coming up and I don't want to get hooked and procrastinate on my schoolwork.