Third Party Vote

[Anomaly]

50 minutes ago, Peace said:

A tie is more likely than Trump winning. If you believe otherwise please feel free to watch the "grab them by the p----" video one more time to convince yourself.

One of the two (Hillary) becoming president is the likely scenario. But that is not a valid reason to assert that a person should vote for Trump, when there are  other possibilities. Just look at the map in 2000. If any of 5 different states had gone the other way neither candidate would have reached 270.

There is no reason why one should vote for Trump over McMullin, considering that Trump has no chance (or a highly unlikely chance) to win, and considering that McMullin is a true pro-life candidate (as opposed to Trump, who everyone here admits is pro-life in name only).

I live in Florida.   Optimism is in the water, uncertainty falls from the sky, unusual is as sure as the humidity.   I still wouldn't count on an upset or some one other than Hillary or Donald  

Dewey wins.  Gore wins.  Hillary wins. 

We'll see.  

But either way, it's important to review who else you may vote for on the State, Federal, and local levels.   There are probably some good alternative choices that aren't pathological politicians or 70 year old stunted adolescents. 

Who else win be in government and will they help or hinder what you'd like to see happen or not happen?  There are only four years to build momentum to replace a probably unsatisfactory president with something different.   More primary and general elections in 2018 and 2020.  

On my ballot, there are 6 candidates running for Federal Office (Senate or Congressman) that are not Republican or Democrat.  Either Libertarian, Reform, or No Party Affiliation.   They are certainly worth looking into way before you read their names while nauseously standing in the voting booth, voting for a President. 

[CatherineM]

5 hours ago, Anomaly said:

And I also don't know the sun will rise tomorrow.   There is no guarantee that the earth will continue orbiting the sun at 1,000 mph and remain intact. 

Both are the realistic assumption. 

@CatherineMSame here.  Mail in voting is nice in that I have weeks to check out the other races and issues.   How are you leaning in Fla's Ammendment 2?

I'll never vote for any type of legalization of drugs. I've lost too many friends and family to drugs to be swayed. 

[LittleWaySoul]

Relevant:

How Not To Waste Your Vote: A Mathematical Analysis

Edited October 13, 2016 by LittleWaySoul

[Anomaly]

8 hours ago, LittleWaySoul said:

Relevant:

How Not To Waste Your Vote: A Mathematical Analysis

A very excellent article that I think everyone should read.   

"The value of your vote is what you give it.".

The more effort and thought you put into what you are supporting with your vote, the more personal value it has. It also makes the case why you shine spending the effort to intelligently vote on the minor races.  Your vote and influence is worth so much more in those races and you need to be concerned with supporting a party that supports a principle you are against, whether it is abortion or drone warfare.   

[Anomaly]

12 hours ago, CatherineM said:

I'll never vote for any type of legalization of drugs. I've lost too many friends and family to drugs to be swayed. 

If the vote was to move THC off the Class 1 drug list so it could be studied and tested by grownup sober physicians and scientists, I'd support that.  Society does not need to encourage more recreational drug use.  We have enough drunks on the road and Spice smokers passing out in parks and eating each other's faces.  Though with Hillary or Donald as president, I feel a need an escape from reality. 

[Seven77]

On 10/11/2016 at 10:07 PM, Seven77 said:

or http://www.voteforjoe.com/

 

 never mind, I changed my mind and I'm leaning towards McMullen and encourage others to do the same because he has more of a chance to win… the one concern I have is that most dissatisfied people do not even know who he is…

[Gabriela]

I'm voting a straight Libertarian ticket, including Johnson. Nobody would outlaw abortion, so it hardly matters who you vote for on that. I think this year we have much bigger concerns that involve a whole panoply of issues that arise when your options are to be led by a pompous self-absorbed pathological liar or a raging beesh at the helm of a conspiracy ring.

Murdered babies are bad, but if my only choice is between murdered babies + socioeconomic Armageddon and murdered babies + a slow return to socioeconomic sanity, I'll take the latter, thank you.

[HisChildForever]

On October 19, 2016 at 11:34 PM, Gabriela said:

I'm voting a straight Libertarian ticket, including Johnson. Nobody would outlaw abortion, so it hardly matters who you vote for on that. I think this year we have much bigger concerns that involve a whole panoply of issues that arise when your options are to be led by a pompous self-absorbed pathological liar or a raging beesh at the helm of a conspiracy ring.

Murdered babies are bad, but if my only choice is between murdered babies + socioeconomic Armageddon and murdered babies + a slow return to socioeconomic sanity, I'll take the latter, thank you.

Yes, I came to the decision that I will definitely be voting Johnson, and I'm very much at peace with that. I figured voting straight Republican for everything else, but we'll see.

[Anomaly]

On 10/19/2016 at 11:34 PM, Gabriela said:

I'm voting a straight Libertarian ticket, including Johnson. Nobody would outlaw abortion, so it hardly matters who you vote for on that. I think this year we have much bigger concerns that involve a whole panoply of issues that arise when your options are to be led by a pompous self-absorbed pathological liar or a raging beesh at the helm of a conspiracy ring.

Murdered babies are bad, but if my only choice is between murdered babies + socioeconomic Armageddon and murdered babies + a slow return to socioeconomic sanity, I'll take the latter, thank you.

I think choosing to give up on abortion and vote Libertarian or voting Johnson and voting straight Republicans is a mistake.   

It took a number of years to legalize abortion.   Bills have been raised to limit Abortion have been raised a number of times.   There will NEVER be a President that can change it by themselves.  That isn't how our government system works.  

Why vote Republican if your Republican is pro abortion?    Why skip a pro-life Democrat and vote a Libertarian?  Why give up on abortion?    In the short term, abortion isn't going to go away.   It takes a long term strategy.   Drop an email to a wishy washy "pro-life" politician and tell him your concerns. Drop an email to a real pro/life politician and tell him you'll vote for them.   Tell a Democrat or a Republican candidate you considered them but did not like their position on abortion.  

Abortion isn't just a religious principle.  Philosophically, its killing inconvenient people. It takes more than making a religion based argument. 

At the very least, think and engage yourself in the voting process.   

[Gabriela]

I do think and I am engaged in the voting process. Turning an election into a one-issue thing is foolish and short-sighted. Have you ever thought that maybe the Devil is turning the entire country to poo by using the votes of one-issue people who will vote their issue regardless of everything else a candidate says or even does, even if it's batshit crazy?

If I'm not mistaken, abortion wasn't legalized by election at all. It was a Supreme Court decision that legalized it. And those bills that have restricted it have (almost?) all been at the state level. So what good do you really expect a vote for someone who is pro-life but otherwise totally incompetent/crazy to do at the national level?

I think most one-issue folks are just people who are obsessed with that one issue and they tell themselves they've "done the right thing" by voting for Hitler because he was the only candidate who was pro-/anti-my obsession. It is possible to really, really care about murdered babies and ALSO really, really care about the big picture in a way that's balanced and healthy. It's possible to hope that change will happen on the abortion front by many means and also to be realistic about the fact that not much change is likely to happen on abortion by means of voting but a lot of change could happen on other things by voting. Personally, I don't think voting is the way we're going to put a dent in abortion. But we could put a dent in religious persecution that way. And lots of other things.

[KnightofChrist]

If Gary Johnson was ok with the legal extermination or enslavement of blacks that would be one issue that would eliminate him from being even considered.  But since it's just children that's one issue of many and not a hill worth dying on. That's a shame.

[Peace]

3 hours ago, Gabriela said:

I do think and I am engaged in the voting process. Turning an election into a one-issue thing is foolish and short-sighted. Have you ever thought that maybe the Devil is turning the entire country to poo by using the votes of one-issue people who will vote their issue regardless of everything else a candidate says or even does, even if it's batshit crazy?

If I'm not mistaken, abortion wasn't legalized by election at all. It was a Supreme Court decision that legalized it. And those bills that have restricted it have (almost?) all been at the state level. So what good do you really expect a vote for someone who is pro-life but otherwise totally incompetent/crazy to do at the national level?

I think most one-issue folks are just people who are obsessed with that one issue and they tell themselves they've "done the right thing" by voting for Hitler because he was the only candidate who was pro-/anti-my obsession. It is possible to really, really care about murdered babies and ALSO really, really care about the big picture in a way that's balanced and healthy. It's possible to hope that change will happen on the abortion front by many means and also to be realistic about the fact that not much change is likely to happen on abortion by means of voting but a lot of change could happen on other things by voting. Personally, I don't think voting is the way we're going to put a dent in abortion. But we could put a dent in religious persecution that way. And lots of other things.

You raise an interesting point. It is a long-haul to making abortion illegal again. Once you get past the US constitution, you still are going to have to re-enact abortion legislation in all or a significant number of states. The constitutional issue may not even matter that much if we cannot swing public opinion on the issue.

I wonder whether than trying to pack the court with pro-life judges, whether the amendment route might be a better place to place our efforts. An amendment is tougher to get in the first place, but has a stronger degree of permanence. Even if you repeal Roe v. Wade, there is really nothing that would stop a new set of judges from reaching the same bad result a few election cycles down the road.

Ultimately there is no solution to the problem except to foster a true culture of life in our society (which we have never had) and to convince a large majority of people that abortion is evil. Before that happens making it illegal will be pretty tough. That probably starts with us here at Phatmass first - living our own lives in a manner that allows the light of Christ to shine in the world.

A large number of people simply do not see an unborn child as a part of the human community.

2 hours ago, KnightofChrist said:

If Gary Johnson was ok with the legal extermination or enslavement of blacks that would be one issue that would eliminate him from being even considered.

Unless the other candidates were also OK with the legal extermination or enslavement of blacks, that is.

Edited October 24, 2016 by Peace

[KnightofChrist]

10 minutes ago, Peace said:

Unless the other candidates were also OK with the legal extermination or enslavement of blacks, that is.

No, Abortion and Slavery are non-negotiable. Or at least they use to be... I guess Catholics can sell out on that now.

[dairygirl4u2c]

if it's a mortal sin to vote for a prochoice democrat, it's a mortal sin to vote for a prochoice libertarian, like gary johnson.

if most people support most abortion, which they do, trying to change it is an exercise in futility.  people have been voting on that issue alone for around forty years, and nothing significant has changed, because there just isn't the support behind changing it. repeatedly doing the same thing and expecting different results is the definition of insanity.

Edited October 24, 2016 by dairygirl4u2c

[LittleWaySoul]

Wheeee http://www.solidarity-party.org/