4588686 Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 Some people think it is 'ok' to 'be gay' but others disagree. How does the Church come down (no pun intended) on this issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amppax Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 Depends on what you mean by gay. Also, I've missed you. :'( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little2add Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 Treat gay people like you like to be treated or in other words: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 (edited) I have got inclinations or failures based on my inclinations. Why should my inclinations and failures (grave matter, full knowledge and consent being present) be less serious (have a sort of 'socially acceptable' quality) than another's? And while my actions might be mortally sinful, my inclinations are not of necessity. Inclinations which are sexual in nature are temptations. The Church states that homosexual acts are sinful, while the inclination is not. CCC "This (homosexual) inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial". A trial in which Grace is assured to overcome. It is a question of response and most likely to be a fall and rise journey for which companionship, acceptance and compassion, understanding, is called for on our part. We need to grasp too, I think, that where homosexual acts are concerned it is grave matter, but not of necessity full knowledge and full consent - and "Who am I to judge?" (Matthew Ch7 "Stop judging, that you may not be judged." Vatican Website Bible Translation) Catholic Catechism "Chastity and homosexuality": Chastity and homosexuality 2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved. 2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition. 2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection. Edited September 17, 2016 by BarbaraTherese Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amppax Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 I just realized. This is Hasan. He's just being himself. He already knows the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack4 Posted September 18, 2016 Share Posted September 18, 2016 6 hours ago, BarbaraTherese said: Hide contents Hate the sin, love the sinner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 18, 2016 Share Posted September 18, 2016 22 minutes ago, Jack4 said: Hate the sin, love the sinner. I don't much like the word "hate" in any context; nevertheless, you're spot on Jack! When God was handing out conciseness, I was in the queues for reading, researching, lost in thought, writing and typing and goodness knows what else. I missed the conciseness queue up completely! But I very much appreciate and admire those who have the gift to say it all concisely. It sure aint me! Again, welcome to Phatmass. 7 hours ago, Amppax said: I just realized. This is Hasan. He's just being himself. He already knows the answer. I missed him too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack4 Posted September 18, 2016 Share Posted September 18, 2016 14 minutes ago, BarbaraTherese said: I don't much like the word "hate" in any context; nevertheless, you're spot on Jack! When God was handing out conciseness, I was in the queues for reading, researching, lost in thought, writing and typing and goodness knows what else. I missed the conciseness queue up completely! But I very much appreciate and admire those who have the gift to say it all concisely. It sure aint me! Again, welcome to Phatmass. Hello phriend, 1) Psalms 97:10, Romans 12:9 2) Actually, I didn't intend to quote you. I accidentally clicked the quote button and there was no way to unquote it. I just wanted to reaffirm the replies he got and give a memorable maxim for him to use in phuture. 3) Your post was correct, honest and powerful. I am somewhat of a to-the-point person, but I appreciate long posts as well. 4) Thanks for the welcome, and for the compliment. It might be rare for me to be "spot on". I'm an ignorant 16 year old in this phorum of PhD and JCL, so i am happy if I say something worthwhile Love, J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 18, 2016 Share Posted September 18, 2016 Golly gosh, Jack - I thought you would be MUCH older. I think that you are pretty mature for 16yrs. Are you discerning as yet anything for your journey through life? Some youngies do, some don't - and either way is the way. I was convinced I had a religious vocation at 16yrs - oh boy, did The Lord have some surprises and alternate plans for me along the way. He can do these things, Our God of The Surprise. You give quite good compliments yourself - and with self confidence too. Go Jack! Careful, careful, Jack...........I am going to be looking for "spot on" from you rather often now. But stay human, Jack, and make mistakes and boo boos like the most of us. Sometimes The Holy Spirit picks what seems (appearances) to be the most unlikely to speak. I know you will know this quote from Jesus (Matthew Chapter 11 "At that time Jesus said in reply, 14 "I give praise to you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, for although you have hidden these things from the wise and the learned you have revealed them to the childlike. Yes, Father, such has been your gracious will." Well, here I am an ignorant uneducated 71 year old (almost 71) whatever in the company of JCL's and PhD's and other mysterious (to me) types of academia, rank, or whatever. You got company, Jack. Sending love right back to you, Jack, my phriend. A real pleasure to know you, mate (I am one of those dinky dye down to earth, quite ordinary and every day, oldie type Aussie sheilas) - growing old in this blest country .....warmest regards too........Barb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 18, 2016 Share Posted September 18, 2016 Jack, 4 hours ago, Jack4 said: 1) Psalms 97:10, Romans 12:9 Romans 12:9 is a quotation that has never internalised with me - now it has. Thank you! Quote "[6] And having different gifts, according to the grace that is given us, either prophecy, to be used according to the rule of faith; [7] Or ministry, in ministering; or he that teacheth, in doctrine; [8] He that exhorteth, in exhorting; he that giveth, with simplicity; he that ruleth, with carefulness; he that sheweth mercy, with cheerfulness. [9] Let love be without dissimulation. Hating that which is evil, cleaving to that which is good. [10] Loving one another with the charity of brotherhood, with honour preventing one another. The above is a great quote I think. To me it can imply that in all of us is the good to which we cleave and the not so good which we reject as not good. We are all saints, we are all sinners somewhere or other - love the sinner, not the sin. Although, again for me, "hate" (as in quotation) is a verb that makes me shudder personally. It really does - as a word, it just clunks right down to rock bottom for me. General comment: The problem I can have is with translations. The Vatican online bible does not have Psalms at all, although it might and I just couldn't locate it. The Douay Rheims Translation (Catholic) doesn't have a verse 10 in Psalm 97 (Psalm 97 stops at verse 9). Not only do I find that the verses and chapters can vary according to translations (I use only either the Vatican translation or the Douay Rheims) - sometimes the wording changes too and one translation might seem more apt than another. Confusing. Be very happy to know if there is a way to approach Scripture translations from the Catholic angle. Which is the best? I use either of: Vatican Bible: http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0839/_INDEX.HTM Douay Rheims: http://www.drbo.org/ ___________________ "Hate" as a verb is my problem. To me it means to wish evil upon something or someone and not the most common definition perhaps. I personally avoid the word and use its ilk. My problem. Sometimes, in my posts, I might commence by addressing another post and who posted it, but then veer right away into other subjects or perspectives on a subject or related subjects and in the body of my one post i.e. not all is meant to be directed to poster to whom I reply specifically. My problem, my fault and confusing to others I know. All I need do, I think, is write "General comment:"........learning, learning all the time. Falling, rising, falling, rising - I hope in that order. ...........and with a bit of luck and God's blessing, I just might be rising as I die. I hope! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack4 Posted September 18, 2016 Share Posted September 18, 2016 I don't feel any calling yet, though i don't know what Good had planned for me... You said, "stay human, jack". If I could, I definitely would rid myself of all potential and be Pure Act, Actus Purus , but I can't, so I'll do as you say. At least for now. After all, one day, my form and matter shall split and then I'll lose my person-ness...... One of the most important things you need in life is some form of appreciation. Thank you for giving me happiness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack4 Posted September 18, 2016 Share Posted September 18, 2016 Source: Jimmy Akin, http://jimmyakin.com/2012/06/why-are-the-psalms-numbered-differently.html If you can't use this and this, read: Choosing a Bible translation http://jimmyakin.com/choosing-a-bible-translation The best Bible translation is the one you will read. Psalm 97:10 The Lord loves those who hate evil.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack4 Posted September 18, 2016 Share Posted September 18, 2016 (edited) God hates the damned. PS Sorry for the unorganized nature of these replies of mine. Edited September 18, 2016 by Jack4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makarioi Posted September 18, 2016 Share Posted September 18, 2016 1 hour ago, Jack4 said: God hates the damned. PS Sorry for the unorganized nature of these replies of mine. God doesn't hate the damned, He hates the sin. To land there, you sin is a serious matter, committed with the knowledge that what you're doing is serious wrong and with full deliberation and consent on the part of the will. You can't commit mortal sin by accident, therefore you an't go to hell by accident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgnatiusofLoyola Posted September 18, 2016 Share Posted September 18, 2016 Ah, I love Phatmassers. Just put "gay" in the title and you get lots of heated replies. Of course, they are the same replies we have heard literally hundreds of times before. Hasan knows how to rile up Phatmass! We are nothing if not predictable. But, can we come up with a more original topic next time? I think everyone has had a chance to make their comments (then rinse and repeat) on homosexuality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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