Rap Music

[Budge]

Some of you wannabe hip-hop talking suburbanite kids wouldnt last ten minutes in the real ghetto, thats why I find some of this stuff so funny.

Do you all wear the falling down pants too? Get out the 40 ouncers but this time fill them with soda pop? Make your tags with chalk instead of spray paint?

[Aloysius]

I honestly don't get you... on one hand you're ridiculing us for not being cool but on the other your yellin at us for being too worldly.. which is it? the American Ghetto tradition of hip hop is currupt and in bed with evil. the Catholic PhatMass tradition of hip hop is not. that's about all there is too it. you can hold on to your worldly ideas that one particular style of music cannot be for anyone other than poor sex-aholics & drug-attics

[Budge]

[quote]honestly don't get you... on one hand you're ridiculing us for not being cool but on the other your yellin at us for being too worldly.. which is it? the American Ghetto tradition of hip hop is currupt and in bed with evil. the Catholic PhatMass tradition of hip hop is not. that's about all there is too it. you can hold on to your worldly ideas that one particular style of music cannot be for anyone other than poor sex-aholics & drug-attics [/quote]

Hey who said anything about being cool.

I am not cool, I am the worlds biggest nerd, but probably even too old to be called a nerd:b

I forget most of you are younguns....

Ive lived in the ghetto. Yes hip-hop is related to corruptness and world that lost its way and I KNEW African-Americans who believed the same as me and said it.

I had black friends who hated Hip-Hop because it promoted a certain sterotype of who they were that was false.

Style of music does count.

You cant deny that.

Otherwise you are going to try and tell me there is nothing wrong with death speed industrial metal.

[dUSt]

[quote]Ive lived in the ghetto. Yes hip-hop is related to corruptness and world that lost its way and I KNEW African-Americans who believed the same as me and said it.[/quote]
The fact that you're using the term "African American" to describe black people tells me that you didn't learn much while living in the ghetto. lol

So, if you think we should not glorify God with different forms of music, I'm curious to know which forms of music are acceptable, and which are not? If you could provide a list of "good" music forms and "bad" music forms, I'd like to see it. I'm sure it's not subjective at all.

[dUSt]

[quote name='Budge' date='Aug 19 2004, 04:58 PM'] Yes hip-hop is related to corruptness and world that lost its way and I KNEW African-Americans who believed the same as me and said it. [/quote]
Television is related to corruptness too. I suppose that channels like EWTN and TBN should be shut down?

[Budge]

[quote]The fact that you're using the term "African American" to describe black people tells me that you didn't learn much while living in the ghetto. lol[/quote]

Oh am I going to get the PC lecture now...

Now whats wrong with that term?

I would have used black but considering PCness of this forum decided to go with that one.

We had Jamaicans and actual Africans too...Sheesh..

the language police are always out in full force in PC white guilty liberal wannabe land.





[quote]


So, if you think we should not glorify God with different forms of music, I'm curious to know which forms of music are acceptable, and which are not? If you could provide a list of "good" music forms and "bad" music forms, I'd like to see it. I'm sure it's not subjective at all. [/quote]

Death metal....BAD

Gospel music...GOOD

Goth music....BAD

Beethoven and Bach...GOOD.

Rap Music....BAD

well you get the idea.

You still didnt answer my questions about starting a fundamentalist Christian GOTH band?


[quote]Television is related to corruptness too. I suppose that channels like EWTN and TBN should be shut down? [/quote]

Hey Im not into censorship. Watch them if you want....go rap your hearts out...but TV itself is a problem too in our culture.

[Aloysius]

please provide evidence of your allegation that PhatMass is a politically correct phorum

anyway, for the sake of the argument: i will remove myself from all cultural bias and thus I do not "get the idea"
please explain to me without subjective cultural arguments what about those music styles is bad, and what about the other music styles is good.

i personally like Gregorian Chant, that's my favorite type of music. tell me, is that good or bad according to your taste (which is apparently dogmatic)

[Guest JeffCR07]

[quote]Hey Ive studied Rap probably more then peope here[/quote]

[quote]Rap is derived from beat-boxing and street talking in the STREETS OF AMERICA.

It started by playing DIRTY DOZENS where young black youths would do verbal contests to see who could one up the other..[/quote]

Budge, your historical account of the development of rap is limited at best. Certainly it traces its roots to streetside beat-boxing and, in part, verbal contests. However, these things are directly influenced by the street-corner soul singers and improv jazz players that predated them. Moreover, all of these things were drastically influenced by the call-response songs of field-working slaves. Gospel also draws from these roots, though I would argue that the "rounds" that are heard in Gospel music draw more from late classical influences than some would. However, ultimately, Rap is not a concoction created by mixing the sins of the ghetto, but rather is a synthesis of multiple styles of "black" music throughout american history, including call-and-response, soul, jazz, and others, as well as incorporating beat-boxing, rhyming games, and wordplay as you stated.

Now, could anyone who wishes to argue that rap or rock music is [i]intrinsically[/i] bad please respond to my detailed post addressing the issue on the previous page.

- Your Brother In Christ, Jeff

[dUSt]

[quote]Oh am I going to get the PC lecture now...
Now whats wrong with that term?[/quote]
ha. I'm just saying that if your claims of "living in the ghetto" were true, you obviously didn't mingle with the locals, because if you used the term "African American" they'd look at you like you were an idiot.

[quote]Death metal....BAD
Gospel music...GOOD
Goth music....BAD
Beethoven and Bach...GOOD.
Rap Music....BAD[/quote]

Please categorize the following forms of music:

Country
Folk
Jazz
Acoustic
Reggae
Tribal
Native American
Swing
Bluegrass

[quote]Hey Im not into censorship. Watch them if you want....go rap your hearts out...but TV itself is a problem too in our culture.[/quote]
Okay, so since TV is a problem, you don't watch it right? You don't feel that it can be used to glorify God, correct? Because if not, you're showing a double standard.

[Budge]

I was one of the locals and did live in the ghetto. Be careful of your own prejudiceces and quit playing lanaguage police. You may be young but even a bachelors degree is no guarantee for endless suburban living especially if a person loses their health.

What do I have do pass a ghetto language test...ebonics language test to prove I lived in the ghetto....?

Define Hoopdedo...

Define the phrase.... "on the down low"

What is a "blunt"?

Define the phrase "friends with benefits"

(ive been out of ghetto since 1999 so some slang has changed Im sure)

The ghetto isnt known for clean living and yes I was removed from a lot of it BY choice. I wasnt into loose sex, drinking and drugs even in my pre-saved days.

I still find a bunch of surbanite middle class probably mostly white boys singing the praises of hip-hop to be funny. And even worse those who call themselves Christian and think there is no contradiction here.

[u][b]The Christian blacks and black pastors down at the local AME, hate HipHope culture. So PONDER THAT for some time. [/b][/u]

You wouldnt have lasted ten minutes.

Try living in an apt with rats.

Try being a woman and knowing you could get jumped at any minute and I did...but knew self defense and got away.

Try watching drug dealers galore and drunk men on the side walk across the street from your apt.

I worked in worse ghettos then the one I lived in after I got sick. I saw people with apts full of roaches, drug taking people who had sold the front door in the middle fo Jan for crack. Girls in the Hip Hop culture who were taught values against Christianity like sleeping with every boy they met. The disrespect of black and other women in Hip Hop culture. The unending violencec.

You all think you are COOL and have street CRED because you rap....I find it SILLY.

You all dont even have a clue.

[quote]THE RAPPER DEATHSTYLE



THE RAPPER DEATHSTYLE

Updated July 15, 2004 (first published December 5, 2002) (David Cloud, Fundamental Baptist Information Service, P.O. Box 610368, Port Huron, MI 48061, 866-295-4143, fbns@wayoflife.org; for instructions about subscribing and unsubscribing or changing addresses, see the information paragraph at the end of the article) –

A study published in the May 2003 issue of the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology found that students who listen to violent music are more likely to act violently. “Across five studies, we found that violent lyrics do increase violent thinking and aggressive feelings,” said lead researcher Craig Anderson of Iowa State University.

[b]Rap is violent music, and it is not surprising that it is accompanied by violence.[/b]

King Tubby, who invented the dubbing process that was popularized by rappers, was murdered in 1989 when he was 58 years old.

Rapper Michael Menson, of the group Double Trouble died in 1989 at age 29 when a gang soaked him in gasoline and set him afire. Double Trouble had a hit that same year titled “Street Tuff.”

MC Rock, rapper with The Almighty RSO, was stabbed to death in 1990 at roughly age 28.

Trouble T-Roy (Troy Dixon), rapper with Heavy D and the Boyz, fell off a balcony after a concert in 1990 at age 22.

Brandon Mitchell, rapper with Wreckx-N-Effect, was shot to death in 1990 at about age 20 during an argument over a woman.

Charizma, rapper with Peanut Butter Wolf, was shot to death in 1993 at age 20.

Deah Dame, rapper with Damian Dame, died in a car crash in 1994 at age 35.

Mr. Cee, rapper with R.B.L. Posse (Ruthless By Law), was murdered in 1995.

Tupac Shakur (2Pac), a gangsta rap superstar, was shot to death in 1996 at age 25.

Rapper Seagram Miller was shot to death in Oakland, California, in August 1996. He was 26.

Notorious B.I.G., gangsta rap star, was shot to death in 1997 at age 24. This was only three years after the release of his successful album “Ready to Die.” This album was filled with cursing, violence, and immorality. One cut was titled “Suicidal Thoughts,” and Notorious B.I.G. sang, “When I die, -----, I wanna go to hell.”

Fat Pat (Patrick Hawkins), rapper who recorded immoral songs, was shot to death in 1998 at age 26.

Luis “Papo” Deschamps, rapper with Sandy y Papo, died in a car crash in 1999 at age 23.

Malcolm Howard, rapper with 4 Black Faces, was shot to death execution style in 1999 at roughly age 30.

MC Big L (Lamont Coleman), rapper with Diggin’ In the Crates Crew, was shot to death outside his home in 1999 at age 23.

Rapper MC Ant was shot to death in 1999 at roughly age 35.

Matthew Roberts of Blaggers I.T.A. died in February 2000 at age 36 of drug related causes.

Q-Don (Raeneal Quann), rapper, was shot to death outside a Philadelphia nightclub in April 2000 at roughly age 30.

Yusef Afloat Muhammad, rapper with The Nonce, was found dead alongside a Los Angeles freeway in May 2000 at roughly age 28.

Bruce Mayfield (aka Chip Banks and Bankie), rapper with The American Cream Team, was shot to death over a money dispute in November 2000 at age 30.

Lloyd “Mooseman” Roberts, rapper who worked with Iggy Pop, Ice-T, and Body Count, died in a drive by shooting in February 2001 at roughly age 28.

Prince Ital Joe, reggae and rapper who worked with Tupac and Snoop Dogg, died in a car crash in May 2001 at age 37 or 38.

Tonnie Sheppard, rapper and cousin of rapper Haf-A-Mil, was stabbed to death in a recording studio during a fight with studio executives in May 2001 at age 38 or 39.

Coughnut, rapper with Ill Mannered Posse, died in a car crash in October 2001.

Lisa “Left Eye” Lopes, singer with rap group TLC, died in a car crash in April 2002 at age 30. A few days before her own death, Lisa had hit and killed a 10-year-old boy with her car in Honduras.

Jam Master Jay, rapper with the popular group Run-DMC, was shot to death in his recording studio in October 2002 at age 37 by an unknown assailant. This is the latest in a long string of violence associated with rappers, who produce a style of music that is infamously violent in nature (though Jam Master Jay himself was more positive than most).

In November 2003, Anthony “Wolf” Jones,” 38-year-old former bodyguard for “P. Diddy” Combs, was shot to death in a gunfight outside an Atlanta nightclub. $7,000 was found on Jones’ body. Jones and Combs had been acquitted of gun possession and bribery charges stemming from a 1999 shooting inside a New York nightclub.

In December 2003, federal prosecutor Jonathan Luna was gunned down during the trial of rapper Deon Lionnel Smith, who was accused of running a violent drug ring.

Rapper Juston Potts (nicknamed “Kanyva”) murdered his promoter on June 7, 2004, because “she told him he didn’t have the talent to sell records” (“Aspiring rapper arrested in killing,” San Francisco Chronicle, June 8, 2004).

“Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners” (1 Cor. 15:33).

“My son, if sinners entice thee, consent thou not. ... My son, walk not thou in the way with them; refrain thy foot from their path: For their feet run to evil, and make haste to shed blood” (Proverbs 1:10, 15, 16).[/quote]

[Azriel]

[quote name='Budge' date='Aug 20 2004, 10:47 AM'] I was one of the locals and did live in the ghetto. Be careful of your own prejudiceces and quit playing lanaguage police. You may be young but even a bachelors degree is no guarantee for endless suburban living especially if a person loses their health.

What do I have do pass a ghetto language test...ebonics language test to prove I lived in the ghetto....?

Define Hoopdedo...

Define the phrase.... "on the down low"

What is a "blunt"?

Define the phrase "friends with benefits"

(ive been out of ghetto since 1999 so some slang has changed Im sure)

The ghetto isnt known for clean living and yes I was removed from a lot of it BY choice. I wasnt into loose sex, drinking and drugs even in my pre-saved days.

I still find a bunch of surbanite middle class probably mostly white boys singing the praises of hip-hop to be funny. And even worse those who call themselves Christian and think there is no contradiction here.

[u][b]The Christian blacks and black pastors down at the local AME, hate HipHope culture. So PONDER THAT for some time. [/b][/u]

You wouldnt have lasted ten minutes.

Try living in an apt with rats.

Try being a woman and knowing you could get jumped at any minute and I did...but knew self defense and got away.

Try watching drug dealers galore and drunk men on the side walk across the street from your apt.

I worked in worse ghettos then the one I lived in after I got sick. I saw people with apts full of roaches, drug taking people who had sold the front door in the middle fo Jan for crack. Girls in the Hip Hop culture who were taught values against Christianity like sleeping with every boy they met. The disrespect of black and other women in Hip Hop culture. The unending violencec.

You all think you are COOL and have street CRED because you rap....I find it SILLY.

You all dont even have a clue.

[/quote]
Lived there. Grew up there. The skinny white girl in the hood.

Watch who you are judging.

Hip Hop Music is not bad .... People sin. Music can't.

[Aloysius]

no one claimed to have "street cred"

we are in NO WAY connected to the ghetto or hip hop culture. PhatMass uses rapping with good lyrics. the first evidence i see of violence being spewed from the song "School of the Eucharist" or "The Gates of Hell Shall Not Prevail" i'll believe you, but so far all i've seen from the PhatMass movement is an adherence to Catholic Orthodoxy shunning the liberal ways of the world (though you, as a fundamentalist, have become attached to more prejudices against things that are morally neutral and thus think we're somehow being liberal. read stuff by G.K. Chesterton: PURITANISM BREEDS PAGANISM)

anyway, the roots of your hatred of all things remotely connected to the world (such as a style of music) is rooted in Manichaeism and Puritanism, not Christianity. Christianity does not reject things just because they can be used for evil, it rejects the evil.

[Guest JeffCR07]

how about replying to my post, which was a short, intellectual critique of your opinion.

Also, on a complete side note, I am a white suburban kid who has never lived in the ghetto and prefers a whole lot of music over rap, and I know what phrases like "on the down low," "friends with benefits," and the word "blunt" mean, so lets not get into what appears to be developing into a post-pubescent girl style contest of personality and opinion.

Rather, lets keep the discussion intellectual. Please respond to my outline of the development of rap, which refutes your attempt to irrevocably tie the musicality of rap to sinful culture. Or, better yet, reply to my lengthy post of a few pages back, which I have been asking for a response to consistently. Thanks.

- Your Brother in Christ, Jeff

[dUSt]

May the love of Christ be with you Budge.

Living in the ghetto and how much "street cred" one has is not relevant to this discussion. I'm glad you felt so inclined to prove your credibility in that regard, but I don't feel like I have to. So you're ghetto. I'm very proud of you.

People who know me know where I came from--but it matters little. I don't feel it's necessary, and frankly, think it would probably cause scandal if I made an exhaustive checklist of all the things I've been involved with in my life. I choose not to discuss it. For all I care you can think I'm a rich white man who's never left the yard of my white picket fenced yard.

I'm still curious to know how you categorize the above musical genres though.