Habit but no veil

[Guest]

  On 9/19/2016 at 2:58 AM, Quasar said:

I'm glad it's not just me! :-)

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Nah, I'm with you all the way.  I really did think that those Franciscans on your links without veil looked every bit like religious as those with the veil.  But then, even talking with religious in secular gear with pendant crosses or shoulder brooches, I sortta jump to attention interiorly, although not quite the word - "respect" perhaps.  I don't think at all that it is to the person, rather to the vocation......but then can the two be separated?  Consecrated state is a unique state of life of its own and with religious it is the state of perfection par excellence. 

General comment and personal experience and long musings follow and possibly  ... :

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 I am a pre V2 gal and a product of a pre V2 education (Dominican nuns in college), and we were taught to have nuns, religious and priests on a very high pedestal indeed and I think what contributed to my change of overwhelming stunned-edness almost in all holy presences, identified by special garb, was to experience religious were just ordinary human beings in a unique way of life.  I eventually (post V2)was to experience them without veil and then in secular gear, walking about in the open light of day on their own too, fer goodness sake, even driving cars - and on their own.....t'was absolutely amazing to me although the changes in religious life etc. was a gradual progression not an overnighter. They were people and human beings after all.  However, I must state, that I am forever grateful for my Dominican nuns education - not perfect perhaps, what is on this earth, but jolly close to perfect to me.  They sure did me far more good and lifelong good than any sort of 'harm'.  I am not so sure at all about the vv.  When I was made head prefect, the rumour went round our college that the nuns must be cracking up.  The Dominican nun who taught me once ordered and marched me out the classroom (yes, I was then head prefect), looked me dead in the eye (she had to look up to my eyes) and said "You are as bold as brass and as brazen as you are bold".  "Yes, St" "Don't you call ME St!" "Yes, Sister" "Thank you"  Never forgot that one, nor Sister Biggy either (Sister Benignus). I absolutely loved that lady.  Came to Australia as a Joey religious and was never to see her homeland nor family again.  She was about 4.2" around that........and oh man, at your own risk you got on her other side......as most of us did. Talk about gifted with a whiplash for a tongue to cut you right down to size!  She was gifted at it, like me Mum, who never quite succeeded either.

Having said that, I love them to pieces in habits too, complete with or without the veil. Perhaps it might have been a desire for adulation too that made me long for a religious life so much......... back when, that is.

In primary school (Sisters of St Joseph of our loved St Mary MacKillop, first Australian saint), we had a Joey (as we fondly still call them) postulant visit our school to give us a talk all about religious life ... but not quite I much later discovered and probably she hadn't travelled her journey sufficiently either(I think I might have been around perhaps 10yrs old or so).  In the process of her address to us, I was really stunned to realise that religious (nuns we called them then) were,once upon a time anyway, were actually REAL PEOPLE (once upon a time that is) in that it sunk right in and internalised.  Amazing fact, isn't it!  After all, in primary school, we were never even allowed to see the Sisters eating.  To approach their special door and separate little red brick building at lunch break with a high up window with bars (door hidden in a little alley way) was to risk your life almost.  The door was opened just a crack and a quite gruff and annoyed "Yes?" was heard. I only once got a peek somehow, and they were actually sitting around a table WITH FOOD ON THE TABLE.   They did come to school in a car driven by an elderly man, but the windows were covered with black curtains.  I studied piano from 5yrs age and as I advanced I needed to go to the St. Joseph's main convent in Adelaide and once was actually taken in the mystery car.  I actually got to see, sit and travel WITH THE NUNS (we called them) in their special convent-car and all surrounded by black curtains.  All the way there we prayed the rosary.  No one spoke a single word.  I was too scared to move one fraction.  Later, religious still in habit, when I went to visit the Sister (Raymond) who taught me in primary school, I was invited inside into their kitchen of all things, one Sister was cooking, they others were seated..........praying the Rosary.

Ahhh yes, those pre V2 days I well fondly recall and will never forget.

Edited September 19, 2016 by BarbaraTherese

[EmilyAnn]

  On 9/18/2016 at 11:50 PM, Pia Jesu said:

There IS an explanation, of sorts!  Our community purchased large quantities of L'eggs (a pantyhose brand) "seconds" or nylons deemed--in some way--defective.  The spontaneous explosions usually occurred in the non-airconditioned chapel (mid-day) during Rosary & Benediction.  The summer heat & humidity under those polyester habits was tremendous.  God surely forgave us when it (not a pretty picture) happened...but we'd humbly walk out with spider web-like shards of black hose hanging from our legs.  We had some great laughs about it at recreation! 

Please know that I consider wearing a religious habit to be a beautiful witness to our Faith.  In no way...did my experiences (sigh!) change that...

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I've always hated tights so when I was on my live-in I had elastic hold-ups. We were in the middle of Sext when the elastic in one of them just gave out. I had to sort of awkwardly try to keep pulling them up through lunch and washing up until as I headed for the novitiate classes I managed to catch Mother Mistress and ask her if I could go to my cell to change.

I don't wear hold-ups anymore!

[HollyDolly]

I guess it depends on the religious order and where they are from,etc. I can see orders fom Poland,Hungary or other catholic relgious orders ffrom Eastern Europe  not wearing veils, or some sort of uniform or secular clothes due to communist persecution.

I've seen sisters both with veils and without. The Missionary Servants of St.Anthony in San Antonio  wear a uniform   type of habit, but no veil. They are a local order and as far as I know never expanded  beyond Texas.

I personally prefer sisters to wear some sort of habit .There are even some sisters who wear secular clothes with  some sort of veil.

It's the communitiy's choice.My relatives who were sisters, all wore the habit. My great aunt  Sister Generose and her cousin Elizabeth both were School Sisters of Notre Dame, and my second cousin Carlene , was a Sister of Charity of Nazerath ,Ky. Now their habits did get modified from  the original design, but you could still tell they were sisters.

[DominicanHeart]

I suppose I should be happy they are wearing any habit at all. But they don't look like nuns. The veil is what makes the bride of Christ look like a bride!

[Nunsuch]

  On 9/20/2016 at 3:18 AM, DominicanHeart said:

I suppose I should be happy they are wearing any habit at all. But they don't look like nuns. The veil is what makes the bride of Christ look like a bride!

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Of course, quite a number of sisters do not find "spousal" imagery helpful or reflective of their spirituality. They don't WANT to look like "brides."

[ruso]

I do not know those communities, although being of Netherlands, where much of the religious joined to the ideology of Schillebeeckx and other heterodox.....

The Dutch Church was strong, they came to ordain priests 300 per year, after Vatican II, Schillebeeckx and others they were launched to carry out all kinds of reforms in the name of the council, although the Second Vatican Council said nothing of what they implemented. In a short time, ordinations dropped almost to zero. Recently, the Dutch Dominicans(Schillebeeckx was Dominican) had the effrontery to ask young friars to order, after having ruined everything in Netherlands.

In Spain, one of the last foundations, chose the habit but without using veil

They born as female branch of Missionary Oblates of Mary Immaculate. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missionary_Oblates_of_Mary_Immaculate

They are sisters of Spain and Poland, I dont know more about them, so I can not add anything.

http://www.oblatas.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=12&Itemid=171

 

 

[genesisweavers]

Re:. Spousal imagery and religious consecration:. In the Eastern churches when the religious approaches the sanctuary to make his/her consecration they do not use the image of a 'spouse'.  Their imagery is 'the prodigal'.  I only saw a video of a nun's profession.  She wears a long white robe with no belt, head uncovered.  As she is escorted up the aisle of the church she stops three times and makes a full prostration on the floor symbolizing her position as the prodigal - unworthy and penitent returning to the Father.  It's a different perspective but meaningful to me.  

[Quasar]

  On 9/20/2016 at 2:27 PM, Nunsuch said:

Of course, quite a number of sisters do not find "spousal" imagery helpful or reflective of their spirituality. They don't WANT to look like "brides."

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Also, *looking* like a bride isn't what makes one a bride or a wife.  I don't understand this judginess about appearances when a woman has done something as radical and holy as consecrating herself to Christ.  The reality is these women have made an incredible sacrifice and act of faith, and I think there is a certain arrogance in someone who hasn't made that sacrifice but feels qualified to judge them.  

Opinions, preferences and affections for certain practices are totally different, and that's not what I'm referring to.  I think most people  who admire or appreciate religious have opinions on this issue.

[Spem in alium]

  On 9/20/2016 at 6:36 PM, Quasar said:

Also, *looking* like a bride isn't what makes one a bride or a wife.  I don't understand this judginess about appearances when a woman has done something as radical and holy as consecrating herself to Christ.  The reality is these women have made an incredible sacrifice and act of faith, and I think there is a certain arrogance in someone who hasn't made that sacrifice but feels qualified to judge them.  

Opinions, preferences and affections for certain practices are totally different, and that's not what I'm referring to.  I think most people  who admire or appreciate religious have opinions on this issue.

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It's very interesting for me when consecration as a religious is termed a "sacrifice"...because for me it doesn't feel that way at all, at least not at the moment.

Your words remind me of when I see people annoyed or frustrated with a mother trying to control her crying child. Judgements of her can be made so quickly and easily. We can be so quick to criticize, and so quick to forget times when we may have been judged and how it made us feel. As Pope Francis said, who am I to judge?

As for bridal imagery, the sign of my relationship with Jesus is more truly and completely expressed in joy, love and charity than in anything I wear. The veil is a beautiful sign for me and I would like to wear one eventually, but the main sign is my heart, its movements and openness. 

[AveMariaPurissima]

  On 9/20/2016 at 3:35 PM, genesisweavers said:

Re:. Spousal imagery and religious consecration:. In the Eastern churches when the religious approaches the sanctuary to make his/her consecration they do not use the image of a 'spouse'.  Their imagery is 'the prodigal'.  I only saw a video of a nun's profession.  She wears a long white robe with no belt, head uncovered.  As she is escorted up the aisle of the church she stops three times and makes a full prostration on the floor symbolizing her position as the prodigal - unworthy and penitent returning to the Father.  It's a different perspective but meaningful to me.  

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I love this!  I've thought along similar lines while reading the parable of the prodigal son.