Special charism

[Guest]

Thanks, Nada - and my bad.  I will read up on the history of France and religious attitudes.

Private Vows

http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/132845-home-mass-private-vows/

[Sponsa-Christi]

On 9/16/2016 at 10:05 AM, katherineH said:

What you described sounds similar to Opus Dei founded by Sr. Josemaria Escriva.  Their whole "charism" is pursuing professional excellence at all levels of society.  Their numeraries (consecrated, celibate) live in community, share their income, and undergo rigorous spiritual formation.  It is a very unique form of consecration.  They aren't a religious community (they call themselves a prelature) and don't call themselves brothers and sisters but there are many parallels. They are very devoted to the Church and are an impressive group of people. Maybe something worth looking into! 

I went to a university run by Opus Dei for my canon law studies. Their exact canonical category is rather interesting (basically, it was something new that Opus Dei canonists basically made up for themselves so they could have a "niche" in the Church somewhere)!

Opus Dei memebers, even the celibate members, are actually very insistent that they are NOT "consecrated." They describe themselves as ordinary laypeople who have simply freely decided to live a certain way. Originally, they were classified as a secular institute, but then they made the choice not to be a secular institute because secular institutes are technically classified as institutes of consecrated life.

I believe their rationale with this was that since the lay vocation has sufficient dignity on its own, it is therefore inappropriate for people striving to live a lay life to have the title "consecrated" (as this implies that one needs to be consecrated to life a holy lay life). On the other hand, they're also very firm in the idea that consecrated persons have a different vocation from the lay faithful and are called to bear a distinctive eschatological witness.

[Guest]

Thanks Sponsa - My own journey has been one of change in some way now and then.  It has been an unfolding for me, but that too was a journey while initially it was me at the controls. I know initially and probably for quite a while along the way, to be formally consecrated in The Church with my way of life was a hope of mine.  For a while too, I had a formal application in with our Archbishop for the possibility of a public vow of Chastity. I withdrew it and my discerned decision to do so without any sort of nudge from anywhere. Further on and after much reading and thinking - either applied thinking about my vocation or just thoughts occuring walking to the shops. That kind of process, rather than a retreat of much light and inspiration.  I began to see clearly that the consecrated state and my own state in the Laity in private vows were two distinct vocations.  I thought deeply about my baptism and researched Catholic texts.  Now I am at the stage or whatever, where I do suspect that even if  private vows were somehow to become a consecrated state, I don't think I would choose consecration although it would be a discernment journey and an important one.  Consecration is a wonderful gift and a dignity - as is a vocation and call to the Laity either married or celibate.  Each has its own unique dignity as a call and vocation from God to a particular way of life.  Originating from God and sustained by Him, it therefore is of wondrous dignity.  As always mostly, I am not sure of what I am going to do and decide as this day unfolds let alone the future.

In The Church generally, I think we are getting over in Catholic cultural thought that to lead a holy life one needs to be consecrated.  I do think however that we still cling to the notion that those who desire to be holy and serious about it should/do/will enter a consecrated state.  There is a shade of difference between the two notions of Catholic cultural thought.  I do think that it can be a means of thinking that holiness belongs to the consecrated state and in the Laity there are less demands to get one over the line of salvation and enter Heaven.  There is a term I have heard here in Australia "a deep and meaningful" as a scoffing dismissive term applied to a person in the Laity who does take their personal spiritual life and The Gospel quite seriously.  It is a term I have heard from a faithful and committed very active and intelligent Catholic...?

Generally, in the Laity, we are still not grasping the fullness of our vocation and call as precisely that and as a call and vocation to holiness in a particular state in life, the lay state of life.  But I do think we are moving towards it.  What can hold us back I think, is the notion (Catholic cultural thinking) that still floats around everywhere including on diocesan level at times that vocation and call per se belong to the priesthood and consecrated states alone.  That does imply and can leave those in the Laity quite naturally thinking that we are indeed default and faulted somehow.  Further, the rationale is that since we are faulted somehow, the demands on us are far less.  Sort of as follows: "If you want demands and great responsibility (spiritually) and accountability, become a priest or enter the consecrated state".

Seems to me too that we haven't quite grasped that discernment is all about God's Will for one's journey, His Desire and Invitation.........and that includes the lay state married or celibate.

Anyway, I think my baptism, my own private vows and the Laity are important vocations, especially the state of baptism and the Laity more generally.  I read somewhere and I think it might have been a Papal Document that laity are the 'face of The Church', the foot soldiers and front runners as it were.......something like that.  And being so, we have a unique and vital place in the scheme of things.

Gosh, I hope I have said the above ok - my words stating what I am meaning.  As usual, long winded am I - and I do not know any other way very often.

3 hours ago, Sponsa-Christi said:

firm in the idea that consecrated persons have a different vocation from the lay faithful and are called to bear a distinctive eschatological witness.

  I agree and the above is pretty well known and accepted, while the distinctive and unique witness of the Laity is not generally known and grasped, internalised, among lay people and often I don't think, but we are getting there.  Vocations and calls per se, it is generally felt, belongs to the priesthood and consecrated state alone.  I am, of course, coming from my experience (therefore limited) as a practising Catholic in Australia.

Here in Australia anyway, when speaking of the laity (perhaps more generally too from the reading I have done and the opposition I can come across), I can feel companionship and a sort of community with those who are committed to celibacy in the laity, private vows or not, sort of like (please excuse me St John) some sort of voices crying in a wilderness: "We too have a vocation and call from God and it is not us you are letting down, it is God Himself who originates our vocation and sustains it".  No way could I live this way of life with all its ups and downs major and minor (like life and the living itself) with my default position fixed over many years as fulfilment, gratitude and Joy, without God providing and sustaining me and others like me.  Absolutely and totally, no way could I overcome 20years of very serious psychotic states almost continually, without God's Action in my life and illness.  And that does shine and as an action not of me but of The Lord.  Most often in Australia too (and perhaps further afield as well), when The Church addresses laity in a loud sort of way they speak to the married state, those widowed - and young celibates who are still to decide the way they will travel...and as an Invitation from God.  We oldies, those long in the tooth as it were as committed to celibacy, are never addressed and I can say that confidently and, again and as loudly as such as I can, that it is not us really you are letting down, it is The Lord.  It is He who first called us, He who provides for us - and He who sustains us.  The evidence is there. 

3 hours ago, Sponsa-Christi said:

basically, it was something new that Opus Dei canonists basically made up for themselves so they could have a "niche" in the Church somewhere

Telling statement.

Edited September 19, 2016 by BarbaraTherese

[Guest]

@Sponsa-Christi  Hey Sponsa - Congratulations on the rank of "Church Militant", I just noticed.  It was quite a struggle to get you to Church Militant, not quite where we wanted.........but a step forward nevertheless .  Goodness, I don't understand why @dUSt thinks that Church Scholars are not controversial.  Unless of course we have a different definition for Church Scholar on Phatmass..........whatever.......ah well, I guess it takes one to know one......... aye dUSt? ..... I was going to say more but fortunately stopped myself before hitting "submit reply" 

Again, congratulations to Sponsa........and to @LittleWaySoul who'led the charge'......and to dUSt too who heard the cry of his Phatmass people.

.............and

[beatitude]

The Little Sisters of Jesus do wear a habit, but they have always adapted it to be in harmony with what people around them are wearing. Little Sister Magdeleine, the founder, began her apostolate with nomads in the Sahara and her habit was inspired by the nomadic women's dress. Today they usually wear blue with their distinctive cross, sometimes adding a kerchief-style veil and sometimes not. Here is a photo of LSJs from a variety of countries at one of their formation houses, and here are some LSJs in London.

[Guest]

Yep, they all look like religious sisters to me, veiled or not.  Thank you for sharing the images, Beatitude.  Religious and nuns seem to me to have a special sort of smile and laughter.  Peace mixed in with Joy and happiness - not to say there aren't hurdles even mountains perhaps and that might even contribute to their special sort of smile and laughter.  I don't think one has really and truly lived until they have sat in on religious and nuns during recreation - probably at other times too with religious in a group.  Special experience!  Deo Gratius.

Do I love my gals in the consecrated state?  Yep, I surely do!  Are they infallible? Nope they surely aren't.