The Totally Unoffical Phatmass US Presidential Election Poll

[Peace]

1 hour ago, Anomaly said:

Dude.   That is a ridiculous rebuttal.  Redefine "Catholic " as used in the article and the majority understanding and use that smaller subset as disqualification for the general stats.   

Well. Either it is ridiculous or you lack sufficient intelligence to make distinctions among large groups of people.

1 hour ago, Anomaly said:

So, most Catholics aren't really Catholic, or are they just not Catholicing right?  

In the USA most people who are statistically considered "Catholic" are so-called "Cafeteria Catholics", "CINO", or "cultural Catholics." I already explained that to you previously. I do not understand what is so difficult to understand about it.

One cannot be Catholic and at the same time deny the core teachings of the Catholic faith. The fact that certain people who deny the core teachings of the faith call themselves "Catholic" does not make them Catholic in any meaningful sense.

Let me give you a few simple examples that even you should be able to understand:

1) I, Peace, am a Kangaroo, and being a Kangaroo is extremely important to me.  Does that statement make me a Kangaroo?

2) John Smith believes that there is only one God, Allah, and that Jesus Christ is not divine. Yet, John Smith refers to himself as a Christian and states that his Christian faith is very important to him. Is John Smith Christian?

Please spend some time pondering these apparently extremely difficult questions, and if it is still too difficult for you to understand, please let me know and I will be happy to provide additional explanation.

[Anomaly]

"Well. Either it is ridiculous or you lack sufficient intelligence to make distinctions among large groups of people."

 

Catholic as used in the article and by most people.  Someone who identifies themselves as Catholic and considerd Catholic by the Church.   We are discussing demographics, not making judgment on the quality of their religioning.  

I think I'm doing pretty well intelligenting with the remaining viable unpicked brain cells I got.  But thank you for your patience. 

[dominicansoul]

The Catholics I'm talking about are people who go to Mass regularly, go to Adoration, get all their Sacraments, volunteer at the church, represent themselves as members of the faith...and yet, still vote Democrat or don't think abortion is all that big of a deal issue to consider when voting.   They dismiss abortion altogether.   Like I said earlier, my entire parish went stumping for "Abortion Barbie" Wendy Davis when she ran for governor of our great state.  They knocked on doors and told people to vote for Wendy, and when potential voters brought up abortion my parishioners were fast to say, "Hey we're Catholic and we don't believe in it, but who are we to stop others."  That's their freakin' justification.  It's appalling and nauseating.  

[Peace]

16 minutes ago, dominicansoul said:

The Catholics I'm talking about are people who go to Mass regularly, go to Adoration, get all their Sacraments, volunteer at the church, represent themselves as members of the faith...and yet, still vote Democrat or don't think abortion is all that big of a deal issue to consider when voting.   They dismiss abortion altogether.   Like I said earlier, my entire parish went stumping for "Abortion Barbie" Wendy Davis when she ran for governor of our great state.  They knocked on doors and told people to vote for Wendy, and when potential voters brought up abortion my parishioners were fast to say, "Hey we're Catholic and we don't believe in it, but who are we to stop others."  That's their freakin' justification.  It's appalling and nauseating.  

Is this your parish by any chance?

http://www.holyfamilyacc.org/

If so, you might want to get out of there. I'm just saying . . .

[dominicansoul]

No.  But that's scary.    (I attend a Roman Catholic parish, not an American Catholic parish.)

[Norseman82]

Now I know how Catholics in Spain must have felt in the 1930s...

[LittleWaySoul]

6 hours ago, Anomaly said:

Catholic as used in the article and by most people.  Someone who identifies themselves as Catholic and considerd Catholic by the Church.

Except that the qualifications Peace set out in his previous comment are more or less the qualifications that the Church has for continued membership and full communion, as far as I am aware. So actually, the article sounds like it's only talking about people who identify as Catholic, not necessarily people who are considered to be Catholics in good standing by the Church.

[Anomaly]

9 hours ago, LittleWaySoul said:

Except that the qualifications Peace set out in his previous comment are more or less the qualifications that the Church has for continued membership and full communion, as far as I am aware. So actually, the article sounds like it's only talking about people who identify as Catholic, not necessarily people who are considered to be Catholics in good standing by the Church.

You know, as well as I, with almost of all of those things, you're still A Catholic, just not in a state of grace.  You aren't excommunicated for missing mass, skipping confession, poor catechesis, etc.   Otherwise, on any given day, Catholics would be counted in the hundreds of thousands, not in excess of a billion.   Or maybe just a couple of thousand registered US voters are perfectly Catholic Catholic which makes my point.    Generally, the majority of Catholics do not vote with abortion as a primary moral principle.   They see it as equally important as torture or healthcare access.   "It's okay to vote for a Democrat that protects and supports abortion if they are for Government Healthcare" is not the same as not voting for a Democrat  who supports and promotes abortion if their opponents don't support abortion and/or want to limit them AND do not support Givernment Healthcare.  

[HisChildForever]

Also, while certainly not a Trump fan, if Wikileaks revealed that people in his campaign were saying this about Islam, there would be such an uproar on every major news outlet.

EDIT: Oh dear I meant to post this in the Wikileaks Clinton thread. Can a moderator please move it for me? Sorry :/

Edited October 15, 2016 by HisChildForever

[Peace]

1 hour ago, Anomaly said:

Generally, the majority of Catholics do not vote with abortion as a primary moral principle.   They see it as equally important as torture or healthcare access.   "It's okay to vote for a Democrat that protects and supports abortion if they are for Government Healthcare" is not the same as not voting for a Democrat  who supports and promotes abortion if their opponents don't support abortion and/or want to limit them AND do not support Givernment Healthcare.  

Your assertion was that most pro-life Catholics compromise their pro-life position by voting for pro-choice candidates, because those pro-choice candidates support things such as Universal Health Care. As I wrote before, this is merely a figment of your imagination. You have not produced any data that supports that assertion.

You have only produced data that indicates that roughly 50% of people who profess to be Catholic typically vote for pro-choice candidates. Among the people who profess to be Catholic, roughly 50% disagree with the Church's teaching on abortion. In other words, among those who profess to be Catholic, roughly 50% are pro-choice, and roughly 50% are pro-life. The article that you referenced indicates this:

Quote

Polling shows a majority of Catholics classify themselves as pro-life; a 2009 poll showed a 52% majority identifying as pro-life.[53] Pew Research, combining polls from 2011 and 2013, notes that over half (53%) of white Catholics believe abortion should be legal in all or most cases, with 41% saying it should be illegal in all or most cases. Among Hispanic Catholics, 43% say it should be legal in all or most cases, while 52% say it should be illegal in all or most cases.[54]

It is rather likely that most of the 50% of professed Catholics who vote for pro-choice candidates are comprised by the 50% of professed Catholics who are personally pro-choice. Why? Because people who are pro-choice tend to vote Democrat. How may pro-choice Republicans do you know?

Is this really that difficult to understand?

Let's make a simple example:
 

Quote

 

Total Professed Catholics: 10

Professed Catholic 1: Agrees with the Church's teaching on abortion. Personally pro-life. Votes Republican.

Professed Catholic 2: Agrees with the Church's teaching on abortion. Personally pro-life. Votes Republican.

Professed Catholic 3: Agrees with the Church's teaching on abortion. Personally pro-life. Votes Republican.

Professed Catholic 4: Agrees with the Church's teaching on abortion. Personally pro-life. Votes Republican.

Professed Catholic 5: Agrees with the Church's teaching on abortion. Personally pro-life. Votes Republican.

Professed Catholic 6: Disagrees with the Church's teaching on abortion. Personally pro-choice. Votes Democrat.

Professed Catholic 7: Disagrees with the Church's teaching on abortion. Personally pro-choice. Votes Democrat.

Professed Catholic 8: Disagrees with the Church's teaching on abortion. Personally pro-choice. Votes Democrat.

Professed Catholic 9: Disagrees with the Church's teaching on abortion. Personally pro-choice. Votes Democrat.

Professed Catholic 10: Disagrees with the Church's teaching on abortion. Personally pro-choice. Votes Democrat.

 

The Wikipedia article indicates that roughly 50% of professed Catholics are personally pro-life, and that roughly 50% of professed Catholics vote Democrat.  These criteria hold in my example above, yet in my example not a single Catholic who agrees with the Church's teaching on abortion (in other words, a Catholic who is personally pro-life) has voted for a pro-choice candidate.

Can you now understand why the data you have presented does not support your assertion that there are a significant number of pro-life Catholics who vote Democrat?

[Anomaly]

2 hours ago, Peace said:

Your assertion was that most pro-life Catholics compromise their pro-life position by voting for pro-choice candidates, because those pro-choice candidates support things such as Universal Health Care. As I wrote before, this is merely a figment of your imagination. You have not produced any data that supports that assertion.

You have only produced data that indicates that roughly 50% of people who profess to be Catholic typically vote for pro-choice candidates. Among the people who profess to be Catholic, roughly 50% disagree with the Church's teaching on abortion. In other words, among those who profess to be Catholic, roughly 50% are pro-choice, and roughly 50% are pro-life. The article that you referenced indicates this:

It is rather likely that most of the 50% of professed Catholics who vote for pro-choice candidates are comprised by the 50% of professed Catholics who are personally pro-choice. Why? Because people who are pro-choice tend to vote Democrat. How may pro-choice Republicans do you know?

Is this really that difficult to understand?

Let's make a simple example:
 

The Wikipedia article indicates that roughly 50% of professed Catholics are personally pro-life, and that roughly 50% of professed Catholics vote Democrat.  These criteria hold in my example above, yet in my example not a single Catholic who agrees with the Church's teaching on abortion (in other words, a Catholic who is personally pro-life) has voted for a pro-choice candidate.

Can you now understand why the data you have presented does not support your assertion that there are a significant number of pro-life Catholics who vote Democrat?

I never said "pro-life" Catholics, nor did the article.   I said Catholics.  Despite your intimations to the contrary, we both know what was said and meant.  If I said most Catholics have children, you'd claimed most priests, are practicing Catholic, don't have kids and tell me I'm wrong.   

Complain about people who identify as Catholic, complain about poor catechesis, complain about ambiguous bishops.   Don't complain I'm wrong and that makes the other things better. 

[Peace]

23 minutes ago, Anomaly said:

I never said "pro-life" Catholics, nor did the article.   I said Catholics.  Despite your intimations to the contrary, we both know what was said and meant.

Whatever.

[little2add]

On 10/11/2016 at 5:46 PM, little2add said:

 this will not be the last time the Hillary campaign will commit political sabotage against Trump. Since they don’t have logical solutions, they will attempt to distract us with a negative focus on Trump.

“It doesn’t matter whether they’re lying or not,” Carson, a Trump supporter and adviser, said in an appearance on Morning Joe Friday. “What matters is that the train is going off the cliff. We’re taking our eye off of that and we’re getting involved in other issues that should be taken care of later.”

Ben Carson

 

for instence:

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A U.S. Navy destroyer was targeted on Saturday in a failed missile attack from territory in Yemen controlled by Iran-aligned Houthi rebels, the third such incident in the past week, U.S. officials said.

Multiple surface-to-surface missiles were fired at the USS Mason sailing in international waters in the Red Sea but the warship used on-board countermeasures to defend itself and was not hit, one defense official said, citing initial information.

The latest attack could provoke further retaliation by the U.S. military, which launched cruise missiles on Thursday against three coastal radar sites in Houthi-controlled areas in Yemen in response to the two previous failed missile firings against the Mason.

the above story , that could easily expand into a nuclear exchange with Russia is hardly noted or talked about by the media???

Edited October 16, 2016 by little2add

[little2add]

 

this is the type of news that needs to be talked about, this election!

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/video/issues-clinton-trump-talk-abortion-planned-parenthood-42786619

 

see video:   

A look at the presidential hopefuls' approaches to family planning.

1:37 | 10/13/16

[<3 PopeFrancis]

When Hillary wins, impeachment process will start faster than one can say bureaucracy.