The Totally Unoffical Phatmass US Presidential Election Poll

[<3 PopeFrancis]

On 9/24/2016 at 10:00 AM, BarbaraTherese said:

Maybe we do indeed get the politicians we deserve. 

 

18 hours ago, Socrates said:

I don't think "political experience" is that great a credential if the history of that experience is an absolute disaster from top to bottom.

Touche!!  

[Archaeology cat]

On 9/26/2016 at 0:01 AM, BarbaraTherese said:

Re "lesser of two evils". Being an Aussie and not understanding really the way American democracy works in your government, if a person rejects both presidential candidates, is there on opportunity to vote for neither (protest vote) and concentrate on your upper house (I think it is what you call your congress) and getting in someone in congress who is totally against abortion etc.  Or is it a case that the presidency can always bypass or veto congress?  I don't think the president can because of the financial crisis when congress refused to pass something or other (forgotten what - "supply"?)and stopped the country functioning more or less.   But then I think too that to not vote for either candidate might be shirking responsibility.

If I was an American, I would find it scary with either Trump or Clinton in the Whitehouse, while Trump is really the lesser of two evils at face value only at this point - what he might bring about in the presidency could be another story.  I read that Trump has brought into his campaign 33 Catholic advisors and while in campaign and pre-election mode, it might look good -  I still don't trust the man : http://cathnews.com/cathnews/26970-trump-names-33-conservative-catholics-as-new-advisers

I just can't make myself convinced that Trump will prove to be in the presidency what he is at pains to try to appear to be to gain the votes - especially in this last stage of the election campaign. 

Perhaps the best just might be to vote where mind and conscience states......and then pray and keep praying.

Come Holy Spirit and enlighten the minds of the citizens of the USA as they consider their vote in the coming USA elections.

 

There is no rule that you must vote for either of them, and I usually vote 3rd party. I'd wanted to vote American Solidarity Party, but they didn't get on the ballot in my state. (they are solidly Catholic.) I have no party affiliation, though. I do think it is very important to vote in good people in Congress, and for the State and local races. 

[<3 PopeFrancis]

On 9/25/2016 at 11:33 PM, Nihil Obstat said:

quite a lot of the kind of 'down to earth conservative folk' who are enthusiastically pro-Trump. The sort of NASCAR watching Bud drinking redneck sorts.

I also see this but negatively.  ignorant (as I am) at best or stagnant

 

21 hours ago, Archaeology cat said:

 

On 9/26/2016 at 0:01 AM, BarbaraTherese said:

Re "lesser of two evils".

 

Actually, if it comes down to the lesser of two evils, The CCC says it must be the lesser.  

I think you are saying perspective-wise which is an interesting angle.  They are both pretty much 50/50 o/o   evil.  Unfortunately, perspective is relative and is why we need The Church.  

 

21 hours ago, Archaeology cat said:

There is no rule that you must vote for either of them, and I usually vote 3rd party.

 

1 minute ago, <3 PopeFrancis said:

perspective is relative

so we must deal with the facts and pray and trust Our Good Lord will help us to see the truth

[CatherineM]

Still seriously thinking about voting for the American Meadow Party's candidates. 

[Ice_nine]

Murder is a sin that cries out to Heaven.

So is oppression of the poor and defrauding the worker of just wages. Now I'm sure people will rush to Trump's defense and say he's never done either of these things, but I can't really take them seriously. If we can be honest about Clinton condoning the murder of the unborn, then I think we should also be honest about how Trump's business ventures have harmed the poor.

Does it honestly not irritate you that Trump has likely paid 0$ in Federal income tax? Does it not bother you that actual labor is worth much, much less than the power of the ultra-wealthy to navigate, exploit, and influence law to accrue wealth without really lifting a finger?

I understand the opposition to Hilary based on even the single issue of abortion. I get that. I don't get how anyone can defend Trump and make excuses for him, even if you do decide to vote for him based on the lesser of two evils.

This is not really addressed to anyone in particular just venting.

[dominicansoul]

 I find it funny people point out Trump as a trouncer of the poor because he's a wealthy businessman, when Hilary is an ultra-wealthy politician (even more scarier.)  Many are fooled to believe Democrats live in the ghettos and the barrios and are the poorest of the poor.  This may shock everybody but...they are not.  Democrats live in mansions too, and have poor people working for them as well.  I wouldn't be surprised if Democrats treated their working poor like garbage too.  Trump may have a lot more money, but Hilary isn't the poor little sad homeless person she wept about when she left the White House.  I mean, the woman makes hundreds of thousands just to talk in front of groups of people.  So does her husband.  She probably has made thousands in just the time I've typed this post.  And then there is her criminal foundation and all the money being poured into that.    Not to mention bribes and illegal activities and what not.  But Trump and Hilary are both extremely wealthy people.  I'm sure both are guilty of trampling on people to get where they are at.  I mean, we've witnessed this, right?  Trump calls his political foes names.  Hilary gets the DNC to support her so that Bernie doesn't stand a fair chance.  Trump's pride won't allow him to stop tweeting at 4 a.m.  Hilary murders people who get in the way of her ambitions.   We've seen all this.

But, then there are those stories from people who Trump has helped out in terrible situations, and I really believe it.  The man does help out sometimes.  And you can find these stories too, from long long long ago before Trump was even a blip on the presidential radar.  

Hilary gave us her tax return.  So what?  Is it legit?  Who really knows?  These people are corrupt beyond any corruption we've ever witnessed in our nation's history.  I wouldn't bet anything on what she says or any of her documentation, or the IRS either.  That agency has shown us their support for this regime's tactics of bullying conservative non-profits.   So, she has this piece of paper showing she paid taxes.  Trump probably doesn't want to show his because he's a shrewd business man who has made deals to keep most of his money.  I wish I was that shrewd, to be honest.  Speaking of not paying us poor people an honest wage, Democrats have taxed us to the high heavens.  You can't blame Trump for wanting to keep the money he's earned.  I sure want to keep as much of mine as well.  Why should I give a high percentage to the government?  Especially when Hilary promises that my taxes will continue to fund Planned Parenthood!  Hopefully she doesn't become president so we poor people can finally have some tax relief! 

Come to think of it, the Democrats who run our country made a deal with Iran which included billions of dollars.  Why didn't they give those billions to the poor in our country????  That irritates me more than what Trump does with his own money...

I hold on to that smidgeon of voting for the "lesser of two evils" because in the broad spectrum of that little smidgeon the unborn might just have a chance.  Again, I've repeated this over and over, but if we Catholics really made an uproar and an outcry against abortion instead of having the attitude that "it's never going to be illegal and this election won't really affect it," we could make a drastic change in our country's history.  WE will have generations growing up that see the necessity for us to protect the Right to Life, and maybe, just maybe Mother Teresa is correct.  WE start treating the most vulnerable amongst us with dignity, we shall start treating all groups with dignity.  Respect for life is the beginning of respect for the poor.  Trump has a long ways to adapt this, but Hilary's not even on the road...

[Ice_nine]

1 hour ago, dominicansoul said:

 I find it funny people point out Trump as a trouncer of the poor because he's a wealthy businessman, when Hilary is an ultra-wealthy politician (even more scarier.)  Many are fooled to believe Democrats live in the ghettos and the barrios and are the poorest of the poor.  This may shock everybody but...they are not.  Democrats live in mansions too, and have poor people working for them as well.  

 

No I wouldn't be shocked because that's a strawman. 

If you want to defend a multibillionaire for dodging taxes because he did it legally, then OK. I guess we'll never get anywhere.

Corporations and banks control the gov't by and large. So I think a wealthy businessman is the scarier one. They're the ones actually running the show. 

[dominicansoul]

I believe you.  One of the multi-billion dollar corporations that is controlling Hilary is Planned Parenthood.  Much much much more scarier for the unborn. 

[Ice_nine]

DS, if abortion was eradicated what would be your next most important issue that informs your voting

[4588686]

5 hours ago, dominicansoul said:

 Hilary gave us her tax return.  So what?  Is it legit?  Who really knows?  These people are corrupt beyond any corruption we've ever witnessed in our nation's history.

lol u defended bush who caused the deaths of over a million Iraqis and lied to his supporters. 

[dominicansoul]

6 hours ago, Ice_nine said:

DS, if abortion was eradicated what would be your next most important issue that informs your voting

I'd vote for the person who most likely would limit government power and control.   We need a smaller government.  We need to stop wasteful spending.   Lower taxes so working Americans can keep most of what they earn.  Let us keep the majority of our money and make our own choices on how we save it and spend it.  We definitely need term limits.  (No more career politicians.). A healthier economy. A welfare system overhaul (too many abuses.)  Protection of religious liberties (I never again want to see a group of nuns fighting the government at the Supreme Court.)  I want to elect people who believe in life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, with as little to no government involvement in that.  

 

Oh and mandatory body cams on every elected official.  

[4588686]

6 hours ago, dominicansoul said:

I'd vote for the person who most likely would limit government power and control.   We need a smaller government.  We need to stop wasteful spending.   Lower taxes so working Americans can keep most of what they earn.  Let us keep the majority of our money and make our own choices on how we save it and spend it.  We definitely need term limits.  (No more career politicians.). A healthier economy. A welfare system overhaul (too many abuses.)  Protection of religious liberties (I never again want to see a group of nuns fighting the government at the Supreme Court.)  I want to elect people who believe in life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, with as little to no government involvement in that.  

 

Oh and mandatory body cams on every elected official.  

Right. You're a Republican. 

[<3 PopeFrancis]

36 minutes ago, Hasan said:

Right. You're a Republican. 

When you are either Republican or Democrat you are not locked into voting for their representing candidate -especially in these times and most especially in this election.  

This election will shape the rest of human existence.

[HisChildForever]

Forgive me if this has been mentioned or asked, this is quite a long thread to comb through: if I feel that I cannot vote for either Trump or Hillary in good conscience, would it be permissible to vote for a third party candidate who has one or more positions not in line with Church teaching? I would not be voting for that person because of said positions, and I know full well the person will not win the election (if the candidate had a fighting chance I would not vote for him/her). I would be casting my vote as a person who has the right and duty to vote, using my voice to indicate my extreme displeasure with the leading candidates.

[Peace]

10 hours ago, dominicansoul said:

I'd vote for the person who most likely would limit government power and control.   We need a smaller government.  We need to stop wasteful spending.   Lower taxes so working Americans can keep most of what they earn.  Let us keep the majority of our money and make our own choices on how we save it and spend it.  We definitely need term limits.  (No more career politicians.). A healthier economy. A welfare system overhaul (too many abuses.)  Protection of religious liberties (I never again want to see a group of nuns fighting the government at the Supreme Court.)  I want to elect people who believe in life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, with as little to no government involvement in that.  

 

Oh and mandatory body cams on every elected official.