Carmel???

[Journeywithchrist]

SO. Today I visited a Carmel in the UK (don't want to say where in the UK because that would give away which one it was lol) and had a wonderful talk with one of the Sisters. Because I am shy and was quite overwhelmed I forgot most of the questions I wanted to ask her but she gave me a great insight into their life and their work. As soon as I left the convent I was hit with a feeling oh 'OH NO!' and I knew that God was telling me that I had to go back. I will hopefully go back in a few weeks and ask all those questions I forgot! I am not free to enter just yet, but will be within the next year. If you could pray for me at this time I would really appreciate it as I feel very in over my head! 

[Quasar]

2 hours ago, Journeywithchrist said:

SO. Today I visited a Carmel in the UK (don't want to say where in the UK because that would give away which one it was lol) and had a wonderful talk with one of the Sisters. Because I am shy and was quite overwhelmed I forgot most of the questions I wanted to ask her but she gave me a great insight into their life and their work. As soon as I left the convent I was hit with a feeling oh 'OH NO!' and I knew that God was telling me that I had to go back. I will hopefully go back in a few weeks and ask all those questions I forgot! I am not free to enter just yet, but will be within the next year. If you could pray for me at this time I would really appreciate it as I feel very in over my head! 

How exciting!  I will certainly pray for you!  I'd love to hear more about your visit and impressions if you care to share.

[Jennifer]

Many prayers for you at this time................will look forward to hearing about your progress. God Bless.

[Journeywithchrist]

Thank you both! I hope to go for another visit in a few weeks and I will give a more detailed account then, as I shall have a chance to ask more questions!

[Journeywithchrist]

Today I went to visit Carmel again and thought I would share my experience. I met the Novice Mistress today and came prepared with a list of questions this time! Perhaps it would be interesting for some of you to read the questions I asked and a summary of her answers.

Just a little background on my current situation, I have been ‘interested’ in the religious life for around 5 years but have only began to discern seriously quite recently. I am in my early twenties and am a university student. I am also a fairly recent convert to Catholicism (have been a Christian for 5 years and a Catholic for a year and a half). So while I feel called to discern now because of these things I would not be able to enter for a while (which is fine! I am definitely in no rush!). I have corresponded with one other Carmel in the UK (Sheffield Carmel) but this is the first one I have visited (I feel slightly hesitant to say which one it is but I’m sure some of you will be able to work it out!).

I began by asking what she felt was the hardest part of being a sister; before I even asked this I knew it was a pretty silly question as of course it’s different for every person. Sister mentioned that the solitude was often the hardest thing for people to get used to, and asked me how I felt about silence. I am quite introverted and think that I would deal with ‘physical’ silence quite easily, it would be the lack of distractions from my own thoughts that I would really struggle with. And the getting up early! Sister reassured me that as with all things, you get used to it! Every postulant is assigned an ‘angel’, a professed sister that helps her with the practical side of the life, she then consults her novice mistress for help with any spiritual matters. Of course she can always go to the Prioress with problems as well. These three sisters are the only ones a postulant would confide in and go to with problems, they are not allowed to talk to they other Sisters about such matters. This sounds rather harsh but it is simply to avoid confusing the postulant with too many opinions/voices. Sister said that often postulants are afraid of getting things ‘wrong’ so to speak, and sometimes do not want to admit their faults to the NM but she stressed that she is not there to reprimand postulants but only to help them be Carmelites.

They have one (if I’m remembering correctly) extern Sister who takes Sisters to appointments when needed. Because she is an extern Sister she is able to go and visit her family for a holiday. The rest of the Sisters can have their family come to visit once a month for a day, or for a bit longer if their family is from far away and cannot come too often (as would be the case with me). Friends can come and visit twice a year. Because most people do not write letters anymore Sisters are allowed access to email every few weeks. This really surprised me! I have never heard of a Carmel allowing this before and am not entirely sure how I feel about it but I would probably be glad of it if I did enter as I doubt my friends are keen on writing letters.

When one enters as a postulant she wears her normal clothes until she takes the habit and her religious name. One of the postulants has the same name as me! Generally the custom for discernment is that a woman who is interested will visit once a month, or as often as she is able, until the community feel that it is appropriate that she come for a live in. I have been invited to a Carmelite vocations event that the Sisters are involved with ran by some Carmelite friars which is taking place in a few week and I am planning to attend mass with the sisters beforehand. After that I am not sure when I will have the time to visit again but I definitely will when I can.

I was going to ask some questions about the constitutions that they follow (they are a 1991 Carmel) and how this affects their life but I decided against it as I do not want whatever preference I may have for 1990s Carmels to get in the way of my discernment. I really like this Carmel and hope to seriously discern with them. (I hope this makes sense!).

One problem that I did have, is that they eat chicken. I gather that Carmelites are generally vegetarian, but eat fish; in this case they eat chicken in place of fish sometimes because it is cheaper. I am a vegetarian due to ethical reasons and this would probably be an issue as I can’t imagine it is befitting to their vow of poverty to prepare a whole other meal for someone because of ethical issues. She said that they would only really make an exception for someone who could not eat meat for health issues, so I am not sure if this would work. On one hand it seems ridiculous to write off a community I could potentially be called to because of food but also could this be a sign that it’s not the right place for me? Or perhaps I am taking this too seriously. If anyone has any thoughts/advice it would be greatly appreciated!

I asked her what her to give me some advice on how I should proceed if I think I am called to this Carmel. She advised me to focus on my life as it is at the minute; my studies and my job etc. I have one more year of university left (assuming I pass :D) and she advised me to take some time after to live on my own and experience life, which is fine by me as I have plans to travel and have started to think seriously about what I would like to do job wise after university. I am in no rush to enter at all, but right now I feel that God is definitely calling me to discern a religious vocation to Carmel. I am very excited to see where God takes me and pray for the patience to wait if I am indeed called to this Carmel! I left the monastery feeling overwhelmed with excitement for my future and love for God! He is so ridiculous; making me this excited about nuns! So we will see where he leads me. Please pray for me! Please also pray for the Sisters, especially their two postulants!

 

Also I’m sorry this is so long lol

[graciandelamadrededios]

Carmelites as a rule, do not eat meat but there their Rule is sensible enough that it states "Necessity has no law."

It is a fact that there are some places where fish are expensive and meat is more cheap, so its practical to just eat meat.

In another community - they tell their benefactors that they do not eat meat but if someone donated meat to the community, they eat them.  According to the Sisters, beggars cannot choose what to eat.

I have interviewed several formators, vocation directors, novice mistresses and they told me that they always tell the aspirants to finish their education and look for a job first to get experience "in the world."  Then come back if they are still interested to the cloistered life.

 

 

[Guest]

10 hours ago, Journeywithchrist said:

Today I went to visit Carmel again and thought I would share my experience. I met the Novice Mistress today and came prepared with a list of questions this time! Perhaps it would be interesting for some of you to read the questions I asked and a summary of her answers.

Just a little background on my current situation, I have been ‘interested’ in the religious life for around 5 years but have only began to discern seriously quite recently. I am in my early twenties and am a university student. I am also a fairly recent convert to Catholicism (have been a Christian for 5 years and a Catholic for a year and a half). So while I feel called to discern now because of these things I would not be able to enter for a while (which is fine! I am definitely in no rush!). I have corresponded with one other Carmel in the UK (Sheffield Carmel) but this is the first one I have visited (I feel slightly hesitant to say which one it is but I’m sure some of you will be able to work it out!).

I began by asking what she felt was the hardest part of being a sister; before I even asked this I knew it was a pretty silly question as of course it’s different for every person. Sister mentioned that the solitude was often the hardest thing for people to get used to, and asked me how I felt about silence. I am quite introverted and think that I would deal with ‘physical’ silence quite easily, it would be the lack of distractions from my own thoughts that I would really struggle with. And the getting up early! Sister reassured me that as with all things, you get used to it! Every postulant is assigned an ‘angel’, a professed sister that helps her with the practical side of the life, she then consults her novice mistress for help with any spiritual matters. Of course she can always go to the Prioress with problems as well. These three sisters are the only ones a postulant would confide in and go to with problems, they are not allowed to talk to they other Sisters about such matters. This sounds rather harsh but it is simply to avoid confusing the postulant with too many opinions/voices. Sister said that often postulants are afraid of getting things ‘wrong’ so to speak, and sometimes do not want to admit their faults to the NM but she stressed that she is not there to reprimand postulants but only to help them be Carmelites.

They have one (if I’m remembering correctly) extern Sister who takes Sisters to appointments when needed. Because she is an extern Sister she is able to go and visit her family for a holiday. The rest of the Sisters can have their family come to visit once a month for a day, or for a bit longer if their family is from far away and cannot come too often (as would be the case with me). Friends can come and visit twice a year. Because most people do not write letters anymore Sisters are allowed access to email every few weeks. This really surprised me! I have never heard of a Carmel allowing this before and am not entirely sure how I feel about it but I would probably be glad of it if I did enter as I doubt my friends are keen on writing letters.

When one enters as a postulant she wears her normal clothes until she takes the habit and her religious name. One of the postulants has the same name as me! Generally the custom for discernment is that a woman who is interested will visit once a month, or as often as she is able, until the community feel that it is appropriate that she come for a live in. I have been invited to a Carmelite vocations event that the Sisters are involved with ran by some Carmelite friars which is taking place in a few week and I am planning to attend mass with the sisters beforehand. After that I am not sure when I will have the time to visit again but I definitely will when I can.

I was going to ask some questions about the constitutions that they follow (they are a 1991 Carmel) and how this affects their life but I decided against it as I do not want whatever preference I may have for 1990s Carmels to get in the way of my discernment. I really like this Carmel and hope to seriously discern with them. (I hope this makes sense!).

One problem that I did have, is that they eat chicken. I gather that Carmelites are generally vegetarian, but eat fish; in this case they eat chicken in place of fish sometimes because it is cheaper. I am a vegetarian due to ethical reasons and this would probably be an issue as I can’t imagine it is befitting to their vow of poverty to prepare a whole other meal for someone because of ethical issues. She said that they would only really make an exception for someone who could not eat meat for health issues, so I am not sure if this would work. On one hand it seems ridiculous to write off a community I could potentially be called to because of food but also could this be a sign that it’s not the right place for me? Or perhaps I am taking this too seriously. If anyone has any thoughts/advice it would be greatly appreciated!

I asked her what her to give me some advice on how I should proceed if I think I am called to this Carmel. She advised me to focus on my life as it is at the minute; my studies and my job etc. I have one more year of university left (assuming I pass :D) and she advised me to take some time after to live on my own and experience life, which is fine by me as I have plans to travel and have started to think seriously about what I would like to do job wise after university. I am in no rush to enter at all, but right now I feel that God is definitely calling me to discern a religious vocation to Carmel. I am very excited to see where God takes me and pray for the patience to wait if I am indeed called to this Carmel! I left the monastery feeling overwhelmed with excitement for my future and love for God! He is so ridiculous; making me this excited about nuns! So we will see where he leads me. Please pray for me! Please also pray for the Sisters, especially their two postulants!

 

Also I’m sorry this is so long lol

 

10 hours ago, Journeywithchrist said:

Every postulant is assigned an ‘angel’, a professed sister that helps her with the practical side of the life, she then consults her novice mistress for help with any spiritual matters. Of course she can always go to the Prioress with problems as well. These three sisters are the only ones a postulant would confide in and go to with problems, they are not allowed to talk to they other Sisters about such matters.This sounds rather harsh but it is simply to avoid confusing the postulant with too many opinions/voices.

I thought the above especially real Carmelite type wisdom (love my Carmelites!) and not only for those in a convent or monastery.

___________________

MMmm post did not come out as I thought it would.

Dear JWC, please do not be sorry about the length of your post.  It was very informative indeed - and I am sure will be of assistance to those who might be discerning.

Excellent post.  Thank you.

[Quasar]

JourneywithChrist, thanks for telling us about your visit.  It was a pleasure to read!  

 

[Quasar]

P.S. When you were talking about the Novice Mistress,  I kept thinking of Aunt Voula from My Big Fat Greek Wedding... "Don't eat no meat?  What you mean DON'T EAT NO MEAT?!"  

I will keep you in my prayers. . I think it's really nice that they have you come for regular visits before entering as a postulant.  That just seems so sensible and civilized. 

[Sister Leticia]

Thank you for such a clear account of your visit and the conversation. You're right that the answers to many questions, such as what do you find hardest? or how do you experience this or that? is different for each person - and can change at different times of life - so hopefully you will get the chance to talk with a few other sisters on subsequent visits. (though you might end up asking them very different things!)

Just to pick up on something the NM said to you:

I'm an apostolic religious, but a good friend who is in a monastery has told me that although the physical silence is "easier" for introverts, there can be a lack of physical and psychological space which introverts find hard. All of us - even high extraverts! - have times, especially bad days or when we're tired, when we need to be alone and have our own space, but in a monastery you can't just go off to your room or for a walk round the garden when you feel like it/need to. Plus, even though you're being silent and alone with God, you do have people around you in choir, in the refectory, maybe in your workplace for quite a lot of the day - which is one reason why people reckon extraverts are able to cope with monastic life.

Also, re your issues around not eating meat. You are a vegetarian for ethical reasons. Carmelites traditionally do not eat meat in order to live simply and frugally. Although the effect is the same your motivation and theirs are different. They're not vegetarian in the way you are - as Gracian has already said, they might eat meat which has been donated, and I could imagine for something like health reasons (eg someone who is anaemic might be given iron-rich meat to help boost her intake). And even if a Carmel doesn't eat any meat they might not be as careful as an ethical vegetarian about using low-cost meat-based products in their cooking, eg suet in their puddings, chicken stock cubes instead of vegetable ones etc. Your ethical motivation means you would always buy vegetable stock cubes even if chicken ones are on special offer, and you'd check ingredients carefully; their commitment to poverty means they might just buy whatever is cheaper.

Part of the asceticism of having other people do the buying, menu planning and cooking is that you can't control what you are given to eat or where it comes from: so while the asceticism for someone else would be giving up bacon, for you it might be not dwelling on all the ingredients and being prepared to eat chicken when it's served.

Welcome to Phatmass and blessings on your ongoing discernment.

[OnlySunshine]

18 hours ago, Quasar said:

P.S. When you were talking about the Novice Mistress,  I kept thinking of Aunt Voula from My Big Fat Greek Wedding... "Don't eat no meat?  What you mean DON'T EAT NO MEAT?!"  

I will keep you in my prayers. . I think it's really nice that they have you come for regular visits before entering as a postulant.  That just seems so sensible and civilized. 

LOL!  I love that movie!  I saw the second one and thought it was horrible except for Aunt Voula since I always found her amusing. 

[Guest]

In a monastic situation, if very tired and not coping too well because of it, can one ask permission to rest, take a break of some kind?  (We all probably have nights now and then of tossing and turning and lack of restful and recharging sleep).  The same applies to stress, if one is stressed out to the max, can one take a break from general community routine?

If you can ask, I would presume that whether permission was granted or not would depend on the current authority in the monastery?  Unless of course something is in The Rule or the Constitution to guide authority.

I am also curious about the same situation in an a non enclosed community with an apostolate in the general community?

Although the religious might have a duty or appointment during the day one just needs to keep where another cannot stand in one's place.

Or must the religious just soldier on no matter what?

Seems to me too that if one can ask permission and it is granted, if it happens too often then one might need to question one's vocation - with direction and guidance.  Consistent lack of sleep could be an underlying medical problem of some kind.