Muslim Refugee Brought To Maine By Catholic Charities Dies Waging Jihad For The Islamic State

[hotpink]

6 hours ago, Josh said:

Cool I hope all the pro Trump Catholic bloggers and media outlets get the memo because they are doing their best to sway Catholics like me who are unsure to their side. And when I do here the few like Shea echoing what you're saying the best Catholics of all time get their pitchforks and silence him then throw a celebration that the filthy evil noncharitable sinner lost his job.

Josh, I know quoting you directly is akin to feeding a troll around here but I wanted to give you a hear to heart.

Immigrants and refugees want safe, real screening just as much as every red-blooded American, maybe even more so.  Truly, they have the most to loose if an extremist comes in, not just because of association, but also because they have known the power of evil thinking and want to stay as far away from it as possible, and keep their children away from it.

Trump does things to get attention.  He exaggerates and is loud and obnoxious.  However, he's also not wrong-minded in some ways.  Radicals do want to kill Americans, those who come here illegally are taking resources from those who come here legally, etc.  The "all are welcome, and we can help all" message of the other political party is way, way more damaging to everyone.

One of the things that St. Vincent De Paul first noticed when serving the poor is everyone liked getting behind pet causes and would totally abandon a cause or person for a more popular one at the drop of a hat.  Unorganized, impersonal, unrestrained charity is nearly as far from social justice as no charity at all.  Catholics are called to love unconditionally and give from the heart.  Catholic churches give people an outlet to do this for people they don't know well.  They become the loving proxy and those who administer the charity the face of Jesus.

When the government steps in on a federal (like many politions propose) Charity looks less like charity and more like a free-for-all with those who are intelligent, well versed or have connections getting the lion's share.  Then add to that layers of bureaucracy, English-only or poorly translated or culturally insensitive paperwork, and most refugees and immigrants are locked out of charity (food, clothing, shelter), local community and jobs.  They do not feel accountable to any person when they finally get the funds or support they need.  Rather they feel battle-weary and resentful that they were made to do that for their basic rights.

And that's where cases like the first post come in.  This man was charitably brought to the US.  The charity that did really didn't have the resources to be the face of Jesus and had him rely on federal assistance, the Church believing his needs would be met.  It's not clear if they ever were met. Lacking community, a job, a purpose and in a place that acted adversarially, he turned to the internet to soothe his woes.  He could of literally just had a bad day and typed in, "Why are Americans stupid" and gotten led down a rabbit hole, his heart fertile ground for hate.

So, in the end, I do think we need to slow down.  We need time to adjust our hearts, minds and wallets to help these people before we bring more in.  I suppose in some way it's like an argument for NFP for America.  All the children are suffering right now so we need to take a step back as a family and figure things out before we invite more children into our family.  Our hearts should still be open should something happen, but we do need (and have the right) to take a moment of time to figure out things.

Edited August 23, 2016 by hotpink

[Guest]

Thanks for the heart to heart lol I'm the troll? You're the guy named Pink with a pink circle aviator. You said in the first post it's our fault he became radicalized? What are you talking about? In the article his family said he praised America for how free it was and the freedom of religion here. The problem was/is Radical Islam and the people who radicalized him.

[KnightofChrist]

Strange that whenever this happens it's always after they come here that their radicalized. Maybe that's just bs to save face for letting them in just to have them engage in terrorism.

[CatherineM]

There are lots of refugees who come expecting streets of gold and find their lives aren't much better than they had back home. I think the Boston bombers fit that. 

[Peace]

1 hour ago, KnightofChrist said:

Strange that whenever this happens it's always after they come here that their radicalized. Maybe that's just bs to save face for letting them in just to have them engage in terrorism.

President Obama made a point about this a while back that made sense to me. He said one of the reasons why radicalization has been much less of a problem in the US than in Europe  is because we are more of a melting pot here and open to receiving people of different cultures. It seems that many Muslims in Europe are very isolated and have trouble finding acceptance among the larger culture. That  helps radical groups to install an "us versus them" mentality in the people they try to recruit.

[hotpink]

4 hours ago, Josh said:

Thanks for the heart to heart lol I'm the troll? You're the guy named Pink with a pink circle aviator. You said in the first post it's our fault he became radicalized? What are you talking about? In the article his family said he praised America for how free it was and the freedom of religion here. The problem was/is Radical Islam and the people who radicalized him.

 

I actually didn't make my avatar.  I had left it blank for the longest time.  I assumed DuST changed it so I didn't dare change it to something like "I'm really a guy" which was always my intention.  Hot Pink is a funny joke among my friends.  I guess it's less funny now that I'm 10+ years removed from my freshman year and that awful mistake, but I still find it funny and embrace who I am.

And don't pretend you haven't been called a troll.  I might not post a lot, but I read a lot.  I also believe you had a name change to show your change in attitude and interests and you've been around for a very long time.  That doesn't mean I haven't seen frequently people around for longer warning others off of replying to you.  It happens enough for me to observe it.  Maybe you blocked those people.

I believe we do share in some of the reason why this young man became radicalized, just like we share some of the burdan of why children choose to join gangs.  We haven't won the battle against gangs in most cities by simply locking up a leader, cities that have made ground have boys and girls clubs, outreach centers, more school programs, involved neighborhoods, etc.  No one ever was successful in shutting down a gang with punitive measures alone.  So in this way we do share the blame.  By ostracizing people we drive them straight into the hands of people with dangerous thoughts.

So who in the end is responsible? Of course the radicals themselves.  But we are part of the problem by our lack of action.  And I believe lack of appropriate action is a sin in Catholicism.  Maybe someone can help me out with that.

As others have stated, radicalism, like mafias, gangs and other such groups, seem to only flourish when people are being exclusionary.

[Guest]

I've blocked no one. That's lame. I'm definitely not a troll. I changed my name when I entered AA 3 years ago. It used to be Delivery Boy and people called me DB which obviously stood for ******bag lol And that's cool. I get it. I just post. Open Mic says talk about anything so I do. I honestly never set out to troll though or waste people's time. God bless. 

So in your mind Radical Islam isn't the problem? 

Edited August 23, 2016 by Guest

[hotpink]

2 hours ago, CatherineM said:

There are lots of refugees who come expecting streets of gold and find their lives aren't much better than they had back home. I think the Boston bombers fit that. 

Catherine, my opinion is this is because we are not prepared.  I was privileged enough to meet a WW2 refugee.  He was 16 and had graduated highschool when he came over during the war.  They placed them in a camp.  Those under 18 went to school. The older adults were allowed to go to town to get food, some held factory jobs, some cared for young children.  In the late 40's no one really saw males as caregivers or food prepares, he already graduated highschool, and the factory wouldn't take him. His father did have a job so he was left alone day after day.  So he was left board and very resentful and very angry.  When he was released from the camp he met a local girl and they married (he was 18 by then).  He said his anger lasted until the korean war when he saw the draft dodgers and all of his father's words of love for America saving them came back to him.  He said if it weren't for that war, he would probably still harbor hate for America decades later.

He said it would of been better for him to be killed by a bomb than to live the 2 years of safe but unloved, unwanted and unuseful years that he endured.  No doubt that today he would be fodder for a radical group.  He is one of the reasons I believe that when we take in refugees/immigrants we should have a plan for their welfare more than simply a "safe" place.  He's why I think we should shut down refugees/immigrants until we figure out how to better do that.

6 minutes ago, Josh said:

I've blocked no one. That's lame. I'm definitely not a troll. I changed my name when I entered AA 3 years ago. It used to be Delivery Boy and people called me DB which obviously stood for ******bag lol And that's cool. I get it. I just post. Open Mic says talk about anything so I do. I honestly never set out to troll though or waste people's time. God bless. 

So in your mind Radical Islam isn't the problem? 

 

Well my apologies then and congrats on AA.  Hope things are going well for you.  I was just trying to justify my response so I wouldn't see a half dozen people complain that I replied to you.  Perhaps that was a mis-step.  

It's more like radical anything--be it Islam or even some of the evangelicals--is only the fruit of a deeper problem.  The root cause of people turning to radicalism/gangs, unless they are severely mentally ill, is isolation, unkindness, lack of love, lack of meaningful work and lack of a varied community presence.  This is something we can control.

[Guest]

Just now, hotpink said:

Catherine, my opinion is this is Well my apologies then and congrats on AA.  Hope things are going well for you.  I was just trying to justify my response so I wouldn't see a half dozen people complain that I replied to you.  Perhaps that was a mis-step.  

It's more like radical anything--be it Islam or even some of the evangelicals--is only the fruit of a deeper problem.  The root cause of people turning to radicalism/gangs, unless they are severely mentally ill, is isolation, unkindness, lack of love, lack of meaningful work and lack of a varied community presence.  This is something we can control.

Never heard of people complaining when posters respond to me let alone half a dozen but maybe they're doing their complaining in private messages. Like Yo Gotti says it goes down in the DM. If that's the case they should cowboy up and say it publicly. The only complaints I've heard is that I shouldn't have a Church Militant tag. So Radical Islam is just like anything. Like Radical Evangelicals. Gotcha.

Edited August 23, 2016 by Guest

[hotpink]

5 minutes ago, Josh said:

Never heard of people complaining when posters respond to me let alone half a dozen but maybe they're doing their complaining in private messages. Like Yo Gotti says it goes down in the DM. If that's the case they should cowboy up and say it publicly. The only complaints I've heard is that I shouldn't have a Church Militant tag. So Radical Islam is just like anything. Like Radical Evangelicals. Gotcha.

The harm they do?  No, so far it's been much, much worse.  However, it stems from the same root causes. Once you go down the rabbit hole, you're basically lost.  We can't really put FLDS and their awful child-abuse poligmay on the same level of Sedactivist Catholics, but it's the same la-la land of leaders who are using power wrongly, to attract those who feel disenfranchised.