Contemplative life and Mental Illness

[tinytherese]

On August 14, 2016 at 8:25 AM, Sr Mary Catharine OP said:

Kayte, MOST contemplative communities have some sort of policy about candidates with mental illness. Although you may do really well with medication in a regular way of life, contemplative life and particularly cloistered life is a very demanding and "unique" way of life. I remember when I was young an older nun saying that cloistered life was "a dangerous life" and I couldn't understand that because I hadn't been living in the monastery long enough. Although it is a very simple and ordinary life many things that are "normal" are not a part of our life because of the nature of our vocation. Yes, there are nuns in monasteries that have mental illnesses and the life is often extraordinarily difficult for them...and for the community with whom they live so closely 24/7 365 days a year.

It is not right and just to a person with a mental illness to perhaps put them in a position where it may do them harm or damage them emotionally and spiritually.

The advice given to not say anything until they ask is not good advice because most monasteries will tell you that you can't continue discerning with them. It is really much better to be upfront and tell the vocation directress immediately the nature of your illness and if God wants you in that monastery he will open the door. It may be that the particular nature of your illness is such that it would be OK. But not sharing it wouldn't reflect well on you if you in fact know this could be an impediment.

I know this is hard but truly the sisters have your welfare in mind. It may be that God is calling you to a life that has more "outlets" for your well-being and development. When God calls you to a way of life he calls you to a life in which you can flourish. He loves you and has a plan for you!  

What is it specifically about contemplative communities that make it hard for someone with a mental illness to handle?

[Gabriela]

54 minutes ago, tinytherese said:

What is it specifically about contemplative communities that make it hard for someone with a mental illness to handle?

The monastery is often likened to a pressure cooker, for two reasons: (1) You're in there all day, with no break, with a whole lot of silence in which to stew in your own thoughts. With a mental illness, and no distractions, this could really tip a person. (2) You're in there all day, with no break, with a whole lot of women who can drive each other crazy. With a mental illness, and sharp objects, this could be very bad.

 (Only I'm serious.)

[graciandelamadrededios]

42 minutes ago, Gabriela said:

The monastery is often likened to a pressure cooker, for two reasons: (1) You're in there all day, with no break, with a whole lot of silence in which to stew in your own thoughts. With a mental illness, and no distractions, this could really tip a person. (2) You're in there all day, with no break, with a whole lot of women who can drive each other crazy. With a mental illness, and sharp objects, this could be very bad.

 (Only I'm serious.)

I agree, unlike active orders where you can "escape" to teaching, hospital work or outside apostolate.  

Remember St. Therese when she was so irritated by a Sister who made some clicking sound during mental prayer?

 

 

 

[Pax_et bonum]

I just want to offer a little hope to all the people with mental illnesses reading. I'm not a success story, yet, but I am discerning with a cloistered community that is fully aware of my condition. I was diagnosed with depression and anxiety a few years ago, and now I'm stable on meds. The community and I have a lot to discern together, but I'm so glad they're in it with me. 

[Gabriela]

12 minutes ago, graciandelamadrededios said:

I agree, unlike active orders where you can "escape" to teaching, hospital work or outside apostolate.  

Remember St. Therese when she was so irritated by a Sister who made some clicking sound during mental prayer?

Or An Infinity of Little Hours (based on the true stories told the author by Carthusian monks), where one guy literally lost his mind and started pulling his hair out and engaging in all kinds of other self-harmful behaviors, and another guy obsessed in a totally crazy way over other people's trivial chant mistakes.

1 minute ago, Pax_et bonum said:

I just want to offer a little hope to all the people with mental illnesses reading. I'm not a success story, yet, but I am discerning with a cloistered community that is fully aware of my condition. I was diagnosed with depression and anxiety a few years ago, and now I'm stable on meds. The community and I have a lot to discern together, but I'm so glad they're in it with me. 

Prayers for you, Pax! 

[truthfinder]

45 minutes ago, Gabriela said:

Or An Infinity of Little Hours (based on the true stories told the author by Carthusian monks), where one guy literally lost his mind and started pulling his hair out and engaging in all kinds of other self-harmful behaviors, and another guy obsessed in a totally crazy way over other people's trivial chant mistakes.

Prayers for you, Pax! 

Same thing happened in Mother Angelica's biography - she was chased by crazy nun with a large knife. Only one of a number of incidents that the community had with the unstable sister. 

Edited August 17, 2016 by truthfinder

[Sponsa-Christi]

I'm just asking because I'm curious, but in the discernment of a contemplative vocation, would a distinction be made between an "organic" (as in, pre-existing and not necessarily caused by any outside factor) metal illness and a reaction to a traumatic situation? E.g., would someone who struggled with serious long-term grief after the death of a close relative be in a different situation/category discernment-wise than someone who had always suffered from depression regardless of their life circumstances? 

Edited August 17, 2016 by Sponsa-Christi

[Gabriela]

1 hour ago, Sponsa-Christi said:

I'm just asking because I'm curious, but in the discernment of a contemplative vocation, would a distinction be made between an "organic" (as in, pre-existing and not necessarily caused by any outside factor) metal illness and a reaction to a traumatic situation? E.g., would someone who struggled with serious long-term grief after the death of a close relative be in a different situation/category discernment-wise than someone who had always suffered from depression regardless of their life circumstances? 

Well, I should imagine that the "always" case would be rejected more readily, whereas the "only since that thing" case may be told to go off and heal, the come back when better. But while either is in the grips of the problem, I can't imagine entrance would be permitted.

[Antigonos]

Putting on my medical hat for a moment, I think there are a number of issues here, some are related to others.

First of all, the actual cause of "clinical depression" is still not really understood.  Sometimes it seems to run in families.  I had a friend whose mother developed severe depression during her menopause, and the doctors thought it related to that [menopausal women have significantly higher levels of depression, and that in itself is interesting: is it brought about by changing hormonal status or just that the realization that one "chapter" of one's life is closing and another, often less pleasant, is opening?].  But in her thirties, my friend also became seriously depressed and is taking lithium [with good results] even to this day.  There are those whose depression seems to be related to a specific event; remove the cause, remove the problem.

I've noticed, over the years I've been here on this phorum, a number of discerners who admit to having struggles with depression.  Could it be related to the anxieties and/or frustration resulting from the deep desire to enter religious life, which often takes years to identify and the often the long period of discernment itself?  In which case, finding a compatible community and being accepted by it may actually reduce those factors leading to depression, as one gains a sense of fulfillment.  Or, quite possibly, the exact opposite, as has been noted by several of you already.  Monastic life is certainly a pressure cooker, especially in small, enclosed communities.

Finally, not to cast doubt on anyone's vocation, in particular, but there are certain psychiatric problems which manifest themselves occasionally as religious phenomena: hearing heavenly voices or having what are apparently visions.  A person may have an isolated episode, or recurring ones, and be absolutely convinced that these are manifestations of a Divine nature.  Afraid of being mocked, the person may not tell anyone, go into religious life, and then have a complete breakdown.  Sisters are not psychologists, and often can't distinguish early warning symptoms, and don't know how to cope with unusual behavior, which can make a bad situation worse.

[Guest]

50 minutes ago, Antigonos said:

Sisters are not psychologists, and often can't distinguish early warning symptoms, and don't know how to cope with unusual behavior, which can make a bad situation worse.

[lmsb1231]

Try the Poor Clares in Santa Barbara...  I think some communities will be open but they want to know it's well managed enough for you to live the life without excessive difficulty and that somehow you'd be able to receive all the meds while in the convent

Try the Poor Clares in Santa Barbara...  I think some communities will be open but they want to know it's well managed enough for you to live the life without excessive difficulty and that somehow you'd be able to receive all the meds while in the convent

[TheresaThoma]

I don't have a mental health issue but I do have a condition that will require medication for the rest of my life. From my experience with communities the things they want to know is what exactly is the condition, what is the treatment and if that is compatible with their lifestyle, and the cost. Also how long you have been stable for.

One thing that I reminded myself is that God would not call me to something I cannot do. So I started viewing my condition as just another discernment tool.It is hard to hear "no" from a bunch of communities but it was a quick and easy way to know I should move on. In some ways I started seeing it as a grace. There were a couple of communities that I was kind of torn about discerning with but I quickly found out they couldn't accept me with my medication so I just moved on. It felt good to shut that "door". 

I don't have a mental health issue but I do have a condition that will require medication for the rest of my life. From my experience with communities the things they want to know is what exactly is the condition, what is the treatment and if that is compatible with their lifestyle, and the cost. Also how long you have been stable for.

One thing that I reminded myself is that God would not call me to something I cannot do. So I started viewing my condition as just another discernment tool.It is hard to hear "no" from a bunch of communities but it was a quick and easy way to know I should move on. In some ways I started seeing it as a grace. There were a couple of communities that I was kind of torn about discerning with but I quickly found out they couldn't accept me with my medication so I just moved on. It felt good to shut that "door". 

[Antigonos]

Let me ask a question.  Let's say someone needs a chronic medication -- oh, say, for hypothyroidism, a fairly common condition -- but the community doesn't feel it can afford it [it isn't expensive, but over time...].  If a discerner can set up a small fund with her family, perhaps a savings account which will have enough interest income to pay for the medication over the years, would a community look more favorably on that discerner [assuming that is the only obstacle to admittance]?

Let me ask a question.  Let's say someone needs a chronic medication -- oh, say, for hypothyroidism, a fairly common condition -- but the community doesn't feel it can afford it [it isn't expensive, but over time...].  If a discerner can set up a small fund with her family, perhaps a savings account which will have enough interest income to pay for the medication over the years, would a community look more favorably on that discerner [assuming that is the only obstacle to admittance]?

[Gabriela]

18 hours ago, Antigonos said:

Let me ask a question.  Let's say someone needs a chronic medication -- oh, say, for hypothyroidism, a fairly common condition -- but the community doesn't feel it can afford it [it isn't expensive, but over time...].  If a discerner can set up a small fund with her family, perhaps a savings account which will have enough interest income to pay for the medication over the years, would a community look more favorably on that discerner [assuming that is the only obstacle to admittance]?

In the US, interest rates are practically zero right now, and the cost of medicines is totally unpredictable, especially in the long term.

But I see what you mean: What if they could find some other source to pay for it? Maybe a (young) benefactor or something.

18 hours ago, Antigonos said:

Let me ask a question.  Let's say someone needs a chronic medication -- oh, say, for hypothyroidism, a fairly common condition -- but the community doesn't feel it can afford it [it isn't expensive, but over time...].  If a discerner can set up a small fund with her family, perhaps a savings account which will have enough interest income to pay for the medication over the years, would a community look more favorably on that discerner [assuming that is the only obstacle to admittance]?

In the US, interest rates are practically zero right now, and the cost of medicines is totally unpredictable, especially in the long term.

But I see what you mean: What if they could find some other source to pay for it? Maybe a (young) benefactor or something.

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

One problem that I have noticed is that that the prices for medications to treat mental health conditions, even the generic versions, are higher than for maintenance drugs for other medical conditions. For example, I take a generic antidepressant that (for some medical reason I don't understand) greatly reduces my muscle pain from chronic fatigue syndrome. Under my insurance a month's supply costs $40. However, I also take generic blood pressure and diabetes medications, and my copay for these medications is $2.

Granted, these prices are for Medicare Part D, and most young discerners would not qualify for Medicare unless they met the qualifications for Medicare disability (as I do). Someone who currently has different health insurance might know whether prices for mental health medications versus medications for other health conditions show similar patterns in their plans. It wouldn't surprise me if they did. My prescription drug coverage carrier is Aetna, who is a large insurance carrier who offers many different types of health insurance.

In the U.S., health insurance for young nuns/Religious Sisters is a big cost for Communities. So, a Community not only has to consider whether an aspirant who takes mental health medications will have issues with religious life, but also the associated medical costs.

 

 

Edited August 21, 2016 by IgnatiusofLoyola