guns v murder rate

[dairygirl4u2c]

just curious what people think

Edited August 6, 2016 by dairygirl4u2c

[little2add]

Leading causes of death in the US

- Heart disease: 614,348
-  Cancer: 591,699
- Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 147,101
- Accidents (unintentional injuries): 136,053
- Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 133,103
- Alzheimer's disease: 93,541
- Diabetes: 76,488
- Influenza and pneumonia: 55,227
- Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 48,146
- Intentional self-harm (suicide): 42,773
- murders by firearms 8,124

obesity kills, outlaw glunity 

Outlaw cancer

[little2add]

Outlaw Gluttony

Outlaw the seven deadly sins

[Quasar]

I don't think there is a causal link between owning a gun and committing murder.  But I do think a person who intends to commit murder is likely to try to acquire a gun.  The chain of cause and effect runs in the opposite direction from the one presupposed by the poll questions.

[LittleWaySoul]

"Murder" may not be the best word. I think that personal gun ownership may increase the likelihood of a gun accident/death, but murder? Eh. If you buy a gun for recreational use, I don't think simply owning it will turn you into a murderer. 

[Anomaly]

Gun death rate has declined almost 50% over the last 25 years according to CDC.   The number of new guns being purchased has continued to rise over the same period. 

Suicide rates have increased as well.  

Spend time and money in mental health, not disarmament. You will save more lives and do more to improve society. 

Edited August 9, 2016 by Anomaly

[dairygirl4u2c]

anomaly and socrates and anti gun control people in general ignore that science says more gun correlate to more gun death. i've cited it in the other thread and it goes unrebutted. if this fact is true, it's a function of the fact that a person will kill more likely with a gun, multiplied by millions of guns. 

a woman is five times more likely to be murdered in domestic violence if her partner has a gun. that fact alone should tell you that people are more likely to kill when they have a gun. a sudden temper tantrum doesn't turn deadly with the ease and efficiency of gun deaths. so simple it's stupid. 

[Anomaly]

Dairy, 

You have only ignored the cold hard fact that gun quantity and gun deaths do not indicate causation.  If that were true, then the number of gun deaths would increase as the number of guns increase.   The exact opposite is the reality. 

Your "hypothesis is the same as saying thunder causes rain.  "It is known that you are 98% more likely to get wet if you're outside in thunder."

[Anselm]

9 minutes ago, Anomaly said:

Dairy, 

You have only ignored the cold hard fact that gun quantity and gun deaths do not indicate causation.  If that were true, then the number of gun deaths would increase as the number of guns increase.   The exact opposite is the reality. 

Your "hypothesis is the same as saying thunder causes rain.  "It is known that you are 98% more likely to get wet if you're outside in thunder."

Or, as actually happened, both increased through the 60s, 70s and 80s and the gun death rate only started to reduce when police numbers were increased in the 90s.

[Anselm]

http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/csllea08.pdf

[dairygirl4u2c]

so what about all those studies that show guns are correlated with violence? it looks like people just ignore em. i at least acknowledge that guns have gone up while deaths have gone down. but this can be true and the studies i offer too. what's happening with guns and murders in the USA on the whole is called an anomaly. you'd think someone who has that as there name would recognize one when they see it. 

and back to the thread, what about that women are five times more likely to die if her signifiant other has a gun? that's not even a controversial fact cause it's so easily measured. i pretty much proved the question of this poll without question.  some people are more likely to kill if they have a gun.
 i think there's something not right in the brains of those arguing against us anslem, and they've been putting your cognitive abilities down all this time. totally misplaced.

[Papist]

How about a law that makes it illegal to murder?

[Anomaly]

Dairy,

I'm all for directing societal resources at the root causes of violence and crime.   Poverty, poor mental health treatment, few social programs and support for drug and behavior problems.  

We can't Prohibition our way out of alcohol, drug, or gun use.   It's already failed for alcohol and drugs.  Eliminating one tool or weapon used for violence is a poor and short sighted strategy. 

[dairygirl4u2c]

"Eliminating one tool or weapon used for violence is a poor and short sighted strategy. "

the studies i cited show people are more likely to die, not just by guns, but in gneral, when people have a gun. that means eliminating a gun is more than just eliminating a choice of weaopons someone will inevitabilly use. you've lowered the chance of death. 

i keep repeating the science but people seem to ignore or not comprehend. that's the only reason i was giving up on this debate.

[Mr Cameron]

If anything, guns prevent more murder than cause it. Protection anyone?