ISIS Rejects Pope's Interpetation Of Their Own Religion

[Credo in Deum]

Is ISIS accurately representing Islam? Did Muhammad sack non-believers? Did Muslims in the past sack non-Muslim territories for the purpose of conversion?  Why did we have the crusades again? 

 

Yes, I believe ISIS's actions are truly motivate by Islam and I believe they are an authentic practices of their Islamic beliefs. 

[Guest]

 

4 hours ago, Credo in Deum said:

Is ISIS accurately representing Islam? Did Muhammad sack non-believers? Did Muslims in the past sack non-Muslim territories for the purpose of conversion?  Why did we have the crusades again? 

 

Yes, I believe ISIS's actions are truly motivate by Islam and I believe they are an authentic practices of their Islamic beliefs. 

Has Christianity in its 2000 odd year history never been guilty of shedding innocent blood in the name of Christianity?

On what facts is your conclusion re "authentic practises of their Islamic beliefs" reached?  I think it is probably pretty well obvious that there are those in Islam who want to wage a war with the shedding of blood/murder of non believers.......and there are those in Islam opposed to such beliefs.  Both claim Islam and Islamic beliefs.

If Christians should become selective on the passages of the Bible on which they based actions, all sort of problems might/could arise and confusion too over what Christians do believe.  Obviously, if I claim Christianity and quote "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth" as the basis of my actions, I am indeed quoting The Bible.  But I would not be Christian while The Bible is indeed the foundation and bedrock of Christianity.

________________

If the situation as applies now is actually split overall in general social consciousness into believers versus non believers as Isis wants (i.e. war of religions/beliefs), then they have indeed achieved an objective.  Pope Francis was spot on in refusing the use of certain linguistic terminology ("play the game" as in the article dUSt posted.......for "grown up points of view". HERE )

[dominicansoul]

I think we should go by how the founder of Islam behaved in order to see what Islam truly is.  He set the example.  

[Guest]

2 hours ago, dominicansoul said:

I think we should go by how the founder of Islam behaved in order to see what Islam truly is.  He set the example.  

A fair observation it seems to me.  I am trying anyway to search out reliable source material.

It also seems too to me to be more important to understand my Catholic identity and who I am and called to be in the current worldwide situation involving Islam .........no matter who the founder of Islam actually was and what exactly are the teachings of Islam.  I think this is what Pope Francis has done and is doing........at least in sincere and honest attempts.

[Guest]

United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) - Resource Material with Links:  "ISLAM"

 

 

[<3 PopeFrancis]

By Abu Amina Elias

Question:

Taqiyya is the Islamic doctrine that allows Muslims to lie to non-Muslims and the Prophet Muhammad said “War is deceit.” So can we trust what any Muslim says?

Answer:

In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful

According to Lane’s Lexicon, Taqiyya comes from the root word meaning “to be cautious, to guard.” When a Muslim’s life is being threatened, it is permissible to deny Allah and His Messenger if that will save his life or protect him from harm. Such permission was necessary at the time when Muslims were being persecuted, tortured, and killed simply for being a Muslim. Muslims are never allowed to lie for political or religious reasons, but rather only for security reasons.

[<3 PopeFrancis]

On 8/3/2016 at 8:12 AM, Josh said:

I don’t know if Francis is aware, but there’s no charism of the papal office that makes a pope infallible...

"The First Vatican Council essentially states under certain conditions and only under those conditions are we assured that statements being made by a pope are infallible.  Outside of these conditions for infallibility, we do NOT have the same degree of certitude about the truth of a judgement of a pope."

Magisterial Authority by Fr. Chad Ripperger that Traditionalist priest. 

Otherwise, the pope's thoughts and statements made while not acting as shepherd and teacher ie. Office of St. Peter or priest are not infallible.  

In essence it is the pope's opinion:  which he has a right to. 

Have to go to Mass

Edited August 7, 2016 by <3 PopeFrancis

[Nihil Obstat]

2 hours ago, <3 PopeFrancis said:

"The First Vatican Council essentially states under certain conditions and only under those conditions are we assured that statements being made by a pope are infallible.  Outside of these conditions for infallibility, we do NOT have the same degree of certitude about the truth of a judgement of a pope."

Magisterial Authority by Fr. Chad Ripperger that Traditionalist priest. 

Otherwise, the pope's thoughts and statements made while not acting as shepherd and teacher ie. Office of St. Peter or priest are not infallible.  

In essence it is the pope's opinion:  which he has a right to. 

Have to go to Mass

Fr. Ripperger. I approve.

[<3 PopeFrancis]

On 8/3/2016 at 8:12 AM, Josh said:

The reason Europe is not under Sharia law (yet) today is because of the valiant armies that marched under the banner of the Cross...

 

like Vlad Dracula's 

[CatherineM]

Seems like Charlemagne killed a few people who wouldn't convert. 

[Credo in Deum]

6 hours ago, CatherineM said:

Seems like Charlemagne killed a few people who wouldn't convert. 

Muhammad: 

After establishing himself in Medina and accomplishing the job he had been invited to do, the people of Medina began several years of battle with Muhammad's former home city. In 624, the Muslims won their first battle against the Meccans. As the latter had a much larger army, the former took the victory as a sign that God was on their side. However, a subsequent battle was not victorious, and Muhammad himself was wounded. But in 627, the Meccans attacked Medina, and Medina came out on top. The prophet was not to lose again.

In 630, Muhammad and his forces marched to Mecca and defeated it. The prophet rededicated the Ka'ba temple to Allah, witnessed the conversion to Islam of nearly the entire Meccan population, then returned to Medina. Muhammad died in 632, having conquered nearly all of Arabia for Islam

http://www.religionfacts.com/muhammad

 

Jesus:

Never called for any battles. Forgave is murders and offered His death for their salvation. 

 

See the the point? ISIS is doing the same thing as their great prophet; using armies and conquering for the glory of Islam. They are practicing authentic Islam.  Charlemagne or any other Christian who murders innocent people is not doing what Christ would have done.  Therefore they are not practicing authentic Christianity.  

 

But hey you can continue to delude yourself with the idea the Islam is a religion of peace. 

[<3 PopeFrancis]

6 hours ago, Credo in Deum said:

Charlemagne or any other Christian who murders innocent people is not doing what Christ would have done.  Therefore they are not practicing authentic Christianity.  

The comment about Vlad Dracula was an attempt at humor.  However, for many centuries he was considered a hero by the Romanian people for 'saving' Christianity. He actually fought his brother who was fighting on the Ottoman's side and drove them out.  Whatever, his intention was, he saved Christianity in that part of Europe.

In actuality, he was a vicious, bloodthirsty sadist.  

[Guest]

We did not want Catholicism sweepingly judged by the recent scandals and rightly so, nor do we want it judged by failures of Catholics acting violently  in our past and in the name of Catholicism.  Nor do I think that Islam can be sweepingly judged by the violent individuals in their midst and their particular interpretation of the Koran and Islam.  There are many more peace loving and law abiding citizens in Islam, just as we have many more good and faithful, hard working, priests than the other kind.

We are in a glass house. 

What is to be gained by attempts to make those with violent and murderous tendencies the sum total of Islam?  All that will happen, if such hateful attitudes persevere, is indeed one religion against another.  It is fair enough and rightful that society moves against those who would threaten to destroy it putting innocent lives at real risk.......but not please in the name of religion. Rather in the name of lawful defence of society and communities as well as innocent lives............and in the interests of freedom of religion.

Reading at Evening Prayer for 8th August 2016:

Quote

 

	James 4:11-12

Brothers, do not slander one another. Anyone who slanders a brother, or condemns him, is speaking against the Law and condemning the Law. But if you condemn the Law, you have stopped keeping it and become a judge over it. There is only one lawgiver and he is the only judge and has the power to acquit or to sentence.

Who are you to give a verdict on your neighbour?

 

 

As an aside: When Pope Francis made his much discussed comment "Who am I to judge?", he was simply following The Gospel in the Letter of St James..........and rightly so.

Edited August 8, 2016 by BarbaraTherese

[Credo in Deum]

15 minutes ago, BarbaraTherese said:

We did not want Catholicism sweepingly judged by the recent scandals and rightly so, nor do we want it judged by failures of Catholics acting violently  in our past and in the name of Catholicism.  Nor do I think that Islam can be sweepingly judged by the violent individuals in their midst and their particular interpretation of the Koran and Islam.  There are many more peace loving and law abiding citizens in Islam, just as we have many more good and faithful, hard working, priests than the other kind.

We are in a glass house. 

What is to be gained by attempts to make those with violent and murderous tendencies the sum total of Islam?  All that will happen, if such hateful attitudes persevere, is indeed one religion against another.  It is fair enough and rightful that society moves against those who would threaten to destroy it putting innocent lives at real risk.......but not please in the name of religion. Rather in the name of lawful defence of society and communities as well as innocent lives............and in the interests of freedom of religion.

Reading at Evening Prayer for 8th August 2016:

 

As an aside: When Pope Francis made his much discussed comment "Who am I to judge?", he was simply following The Gospel in the Letter of St James..........and rightly so.

Where are the sweeping generalizations? When Muslims of the present imitate their founder and top prophet, then are they not practicing Islam? Would you say to any Christian who imitates Christ that they are not practicing Christiantiy? 

You think the truth is hate speach?  It sounds like you would, for sake of earthy freedom, put Islam on the same standing as Christianity and that BarbaraTherese is truly terrifying. 

[Guest]

Are you saying that the whole of the Moslem people that follow Islam are in the same category as these violent murderers that claim Islam?  If so, then that is a sweeping generalisation.  Undoubtedly some of the Islamic faith expression are nothing but violent murderers - but not all of them.  In fact, I think that the majority are peaceful people and good citizens.  I got to know many of these peaceful and good citizens of the Islamic faith expression when I was a student.  They were horrified and revolted by what is happening and in the name of their faith expression.

1 hour ago, Credo in Deum said:

When Muslims of the present imitate their founder and top prophet, then are they not practicing Islam? Would you say to any Christian who imitates Christ that they are not practicing Christiantiy? 

Apples and oranges

1 hour ago, Credo in Deum said:

 It sounds like you would, for sake of earthy freedom, put Islam on the same standing as Christianity

I apologise if that is what it "sounds like".  Islam is a religion.  I did not state at all that Islam was on the "same standing as Christianity".  Nevertheless there are some comparisons in that we have had our scandals and Islam too is having its scandals now with these murderers who claim Islam.  I think their actual agenda is not religious, rather political, driven by hatred. I think too that if these murderers can manipulate the situation into a religious only context as they are trying to do, then they have achieved an objective.   In other words, "we hate you and your religion, now you must hate us and our religion -  and we intend to give you plenty of shocking reasons to do so".

I do not know at all what you mean by "earthly freedom".  There is no freedom at all, none whatsoever, other than Jesus "I am The Way, The Truth and The Life....

..... "If you remain in my word, you will truly be my disciples and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."

Reading at Evening Prayer for 8th August 2016:

Quote

 

	James 4:11-12

Brothers, do not slander one another. Anyone who slanders a brother, or condemns him, is speaking against the Law and condemning the Law. But if you condemn the Law, you have stopped keeping it and become a judge over it. There is only one lawgiver and he is the only judge and has the power to acquit or to sentence.

 

Who are you to give a verdict on your neighbour?

 

As Catholic Christians, we either follow the Truth of  Jesus and His Gospel, or we do not.  And I further think that it is Jesus and His Gospel that Pope Francis is holding out for and advocating by word and by example, witness.

 

 

Edited August 8, 2016 by BarbaraTherese