New Church Document on Contemplative Religious Life

[Chiquitunga]

The part that still concerns me the most is the minimum of 9 years temporary vows statement... Waiting anxiously for clarification! Lol  <- nun waiting to take final vows 

Edited July 23, 2016 by Chiquitunga

[Sr Mary Catharine OP]

20 minutes ago, Chiquitunga said:

The part that still concerns me the most is the minimum of 9 years temporary vows statement... Waiting anxiously for clarification! Lol  <- nun waiting to take final vows 

Actually, it doesn't say 9 years of temporary vows. It says 9 years of formation. We'll have to see what they mean by that exactly. Considering the number of religious that they have given dispensations to in recent years if it were 9 years of temp. vows I wouldn't be surprised! In 2013 they issued a statement that an average of 3,000 a year sought dispensations and most were young religious. That is an extremely high number.

I'm glad I didn't have to wait 9 years, though!

 

[Quasar]

45 minutes ago, Sr Mary Catharine OP said:

Actually, it doesn't say 9 years of temporary vows. It says 9 years of formation. We'll have to see what they mean by that exactly. Considering the number of religious that they have given dispensations to in recent years if it were 9 years of temp. vows I wouldn't be surprised! In 2013 they issued a statement that an average of 3,000 a year sought dispensations and most were young religious. That is an extremely high number.

I'm glad I didn't have to wait 9 years, though!

 

Sr. Mary Catherine, I don't understand what you mean by young religious getting dispensations.  Can you explain what the dispensations are for?  Thanks.

[Sr Mary Catharine OP]

1 hour ago, Quasar said:

Sr. Mary Catherine, I don't understand what you mean by young religious getting dispensations.  Can you explain what the dispensations are for?  Thanks.

They were dispensed from their perpetual vows. I will try to find the article later and post.

[Sr Mary Catharine OP]

http://www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=19526

Here is the article. This wouldn't include those who leave in novitiate or temporary vows.

[truthfinder]

53 minutes ago, Sr Mary Catharine OP said:

http://www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=19526

Here is the article. This wouldn't include those who leave in novitiate or temporary vows.

Interesting article - it seems that young age is certainly a contributing factor.  (I've seen a few EF communities boast of late that they've attracted most of their girls right after the finishing of their secondary education, many times from a homeschooling environment.  It gave me the willies not because these girls might not be able to thrive in religious life or that they do not have true vocations, but with the implied sentiment that these girls are being preserved from a very sinful world - a sort of from father-to-convent narrative). But the article also suggests that people were leaving because they had formed romantic attachments, but also that they were perhaps disconcerted by the direction of their community in regards to church teaching.  That would speak to a wider problem of fidelity to church teaching, the size of community, and strength of devotion - more than just how many years were spent in formation. 

Dispensations are not new, and anyone interested in an overview as to early dispensations from final vows may want to check out the book "By Force and Fear" by Anne Jacobson Schutte.  It's academic; and a fine book review is at this link: https://networks.h-net.org/node/7651/reviews/8218/watt-schutte-force-and-fear-taking-and-breaking-monastic-vows-early

[Gabriela]

4 hours ago, Sr Mary Catharine OP said:

They were dispensed from their perpetual vows. I will try to find the article later and post.

Oh my gosh. That is high!  

11 hours ago, Nunsuch said:

Gabriella, I look forward to such discussion, and hope to be able to contribute something to it. However, as you know, not all contemplative communities have the same rules, customs, and spirituality now, so to discuss "how it was before, what it's like now," etc., will vary considerably. Sister Mary Catharine has already alluded to that, in saying that her monastery was very supportive of the idea of federations, but others are neutral or even opposed. So in whatever discussion occurs, let's be mindful of when and how we can really generalize.

Of course. I just mean differences like, "Before the Vatican didn't require membership in a federation, but now they do (unless you get a dispensation)." Or "Before the Vatican required # years of formation at a minimum, and now it's #."

Etc.

Also, I understand this will be an ongoing process that will develop in the months and years to come. I just hope we'll follow it and keep track of the changes that are happening, because my feeling is that, by closely following the changes they're making, we can learn a lot about how the Vatican perceives the state of religious life, and the problems in religious life, and where religious life ought to go.

[NadaTeTurbe]

It's going to be good for some spanish monasteries, who only survives thanks to Indian nuns (sometimes, they don't even know in wich religious family they're going to live when they come to Spain !!), and who refuse to join federation

[Sr Mary Catharine OP]

Actually Federations were HIGHLY encouraged by Pope Pius XII and the Apostolic Constitution Sponsa Verbi. In Europe they have been a reality for decades and some are highly organized in a way we in the US wouldn't even want to consider!  That was 1950!

I don't think you can use Vat II as a benchmark. The '83 code required some changes and again there is quite a bit of leeway for each charism and even each monastery in the charism depending on the constitutions.

Probably the biggest change are the norms for enclosure but there again, in the middle ages enclosure was quite flexible and became more rigid from Trent on. (Thanks to St. Charles Borromeo)

15 hours ago, truthfinder said:

Interesting article - it seems that young age is certainly a contributing factor.  (I've seen a few EF communities boast of late that they've attracted most of their girls right after the finishing of their secondary education, many times from a homeschooling environment.  It gave me the willies not because these girls might not be able to thrive in religious life or that they do not have true vocations, but with the implied sentiment that these girls are being preserved from a very sinful world - a sort of from father-to-convent narrative). But the article also suggests that people were leaving because they had formed romantic attachments, but also that they were perhaps disconcerted by the direction of their community in regards to church teaching.  That would speak to a wider problem of fidelity to church teaching, the size of community, and strength of devotion - more than just how many years were spent in formation. 

Dispensations are not new, and anyone interested in an overview as to early dispensations from final vows may want to check out the book "By Force and Fear" by Anne Jacobson Schutte.  It's academic; and a fine book review is at this link: https://networks.h-net.org/node/7651/reviews/8218/watt-schutte-force-and-fear-taking-and-breaking-monastic-vows-early

No, they are not new but we are 50 years after the Council with great emphasis put on formation in all areas of the human person. So, there should be a lot fewer. This high number is frightening for a formator!  The Holy See is very, very concerned about formation.

[Nunsuch]

According to Arroyo's recent book on Mother Angelica, the lax screening of new members led to many of the problems among her PCPAs, including a lot of departures and contention among those who remained, and was one of the important reasons that outside sisters were brought in to regularize things. We can hope that things are improving now....

[Quasar]

Sr. Mary Catherine, thanks for the explanation!  I hope the Pope is able to do something to help religious communities who suffer from problems with discernment or formation. 

[graciandelamadrededios]

A nice article written by the Handmaids of the Precious Blood:

 

http://nunsforpriests.org/welcoming-new-constitution/

 

 

[Pax17]

It's interesting to see one community's reaction...thanks for posting.

[Chiquitunga]

Thoughts from a nun at Flemington Carmel, http://m.ncregister.com/daily-news/apostolic-constitution-on-cloistered-nuns-the-old-is-new-again/#.V6FOM_RHasM

mentions the nine years. 4.5 years was the minimum before, not six. I would consider this a major and not minimal change. 

[Sr Mary Catharine OP]

10 hours ago, Chiquitunga said:

Thoughts from a nun at Flemington Carmel, http://m.ncregister.com/daily-news/apostolic-constitution-on-cloistered-nuns-the-old-is-new-again/#.V6FOM_RHasM

mentions the nine years. 4.5 years was the minimum before, not six. I would consider this a major and not minimal change. 

This is a good article but a lot of inaccuracies. The document does NOT say 9 years before solemn vows. It just says 9 years of formation. Our student brothers are under the student master and in formation up to ordination even though they are in solemn vows and even deacons.

In the grand scheme of things changing the minimum number of years before solemn vows  is not a major change. Trust me, before you know it, the time of formation is a memory. Besides, it's the LIVING of the life that is important. Vows are important but they are not a magic bullet. GRACE BUILDS ON NATURE. If we are not ready and prepared for vows they won't "work" of themselves. The soil must be prepared or else the vows will be means of "death" not of "flourishing". Sometimes a person just needs an extra year or two to mature and to be more rooted in God and in the life.

Federations ARE jurdical. They are under the Holy See and have the right and ability to make laws for the Federation. It is the monasteries themselves that determine what these are. My own Association is preparing for the General Assembly next month and I just got back from a meeting in which we were getting proposals, etc. together for discussion and voting.

Most monasteries don't make a vow of stability.

The question of whether the Federal Prioress will have the authority to move nuns is up in the air. THere were hints of this at the Rome meeting in February.

I really hope the Instruction comes out soon. Right now, all norms for enclosure are abrogated. In reality it doesn't change anything because the observance of it as part of our life comes first. Still, we'd like to get moving on things!