Why Are Protestants So Pro-israel?

[MorphRC]

[quote name='Archangel Raphael' date='Jun 22 2004, 02:45 AM'] I also am in agreement with Ironmonk too.

I support Israel cause they are still God's chosen people, period. Yes we are now living in the New Covenant, but we Christians aren't to replace the Jews. You forget, we are GRAPHED INTO the tree of life. Christ came so the Father could adopt us among His people the Jews. So spiritually we are Jews as well. Ya they aren't perfect, but are we? [/quote]
God has two peoples, and two religions also?

"Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, "It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you [Jews:] but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles. For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, "I hath set thee to be a light to the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth."" And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed." (Acts 13:46-8)

[b]Saint Cyprian (died A.D. 258):[/b]

""For whereas in the Gospels, and in the epistles of the Apostles, the name of Christ is alleged for the remission of sins; it is not in such a way as that the Son alone, without the Father, or against the Father, can be of advantage to anybody; but that it might be shown to the Jews, who boasted as to their having the Father, that the Father would profit them nothing, unless they believed on the Son whom He had sent. For they who know God the Father the Creator, ought also to know Christ the Son, lest they flatter and applaud themselves about the Father alone, without the acknowledgement of His Son, who also said, "No man cometh to the Father but by me." But He, the same, sets forth that it is the knowledge of the two that saves, when he says, "And this is life eternal, that they may know Thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom Thou hast sent." Therefore, from the preaching and the testimony of Christ Himself, the Father who sent must be known first, then afterwards Christ, who was sent, and there cannot be a hope of salvation except by knowing the two together. [...]" [b]Epistle LXXII[/b]

[b]Saint Fulgentius (died A.D. 533):[/b]

"Most firmly hold and never doubt that not only all pagans, but also all Jews, all heretics, and all schismatics who finish this life outside of the Catholic Church, will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels." (To Peter on the Faith)

[b]Blessed Juliana of Norwich (died A.D. 1423):[/b]

"I knew in my faith that the Jews were accursed and condemned without end, except those who were converted." (Sixteen Revelations of Divine Love)

[b]Pope Eugenius IV, A.D. 1431-1447, at the Council of Florence (seventeenth ecumenical council):[/b]

***INFALLIBLE***: Ex cathedra: "It [the Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church] firmly believes, professes, and proclaims that none of those outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but neither Jews, nor heretics and schismatics, can become participants in eternal life, but will depart "into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels" [Matt. 25:41], unless before the end of life they have been added to the Church; and that the unity of the ecclesiastical body is so strong that only to those remaining in it are the sacraments of the Church of benefit for salvation, and do fastings, almsgiving, and other functions of piety and exercises of Christian service produce eternal reward, and that no one, whatever almsgiving he has practised, even if he has shed [his] blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has remained in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church." (Cantate Domino, A.D. 1442)

They seem pretty accursed to me, not to mention look at their history. Not exactly a shining example of a easy-going history. Even the arabs didnt have it as bad as the Jews, and you say they arent accursed?

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='MorphRC' date='Jun 21 2004, 12:28 PM'] How the heck do you compare my historical statements with Saddam Hussein? If you bothered reading the thread prior, you'd know I dont support Israel or Palestine, and that my statements, were attacking the legit. of the Palestinian claims, which is a shambles in the historical eye. [/quote]
No need to get emotional. I simply said that the argumentation you use to claim there is no such thing as a "Palestinian" is something that was tried by Iraq with the Kuwaitis...and the Syrians with the Lebanese.

My comparison is valid. Further, I never judged whether you support Palestinians or Israelis. If you somehow read this between the lines of my post, I apologize. I didn't intend to do so.

Enjoy.

[Archangel Raphael]

Two religions? Where did I say anything about two religions? And Paul was speaking to the Jews who didn't believe in Christ being the Messiah they been waiting for. I'm talking Messianic Jews, which believe in Christ yet uphold their Jewish traditions as well. Also understand this, Paul was going to the Jews first, but they didn't recieve him. So the Holy Spirit told him to go to the Gentiles.

Jesus' ministry was to the Jews

Paul's ministry was to the Gentiles

God knows what He's doing.

[MorphRC]

1: aint getting emotion
2: dont compare anything I do, to a murderer.

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Jesus minstry was to the Jews, just the jews? You sure you wouldnt want to re-evalute that before a Muslim sees it.

[Archangel Raphael]

Sounds like you got some problems with the Jews my friend... I'll pray for ya.

[Hananiah]

[quote name='MorphRC' date='Jun 20 2004, 11:02 PM'] Errrrrrrrrrrrr Arabs werent even known to be around before the 6th century. And even the 'Arabs' mentioned in the Bible arent the same line as todays, but a assimilation of semitic and non-semitic peoples. The Canaanites inhabited 'Israel' they werent arab or semitic. So your wrong. sry [/quote]
Morph, I was talking about what happened in 1948, not in Biblical times.

[Hananiah]

[quote name='Archangel Raphael' date='Jun 21 2004, 11:15 AM'] I support Israel cause they are still God's chosen people, period. Yes we are now living in the New Covenant, but we Christians aren't to replace the Jews. You forget, we are GRAPHED INTO the tree of life. Christ came so the Father could adopt us among His people the Jews. So spiritually we are Jews as well. Ya they aren't perfect, but are we? [/quote]
Have youread Romans 11? The natural branches we torn off, and need to convert to Christ to be grafted back in.

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='Hananiah' date='Jun 21 2004, 01:20 PM'] Have youread Romans 11? The natural branches we torn off, and need to convert to Christ to be grafted back in. [/quote]
Good reference!

Although, at this point I think it would be an improvement if the many atheist Israelis would first revert back to monotheism.

[Archangel Raphael]

I'm NOT talking about Judism. Even born Jews must confess that Jesus is Lord, which would make them Messianic Jews (Christian Jews). Just as we believe in the Trinity, and Jesus being the only way to the Father, they too must believe that. And besides the beginning of Romans 11 says God hasn't cast away his people he foreknew. Yes the Jews must embrace the new covenant, but they nonetheless still God's original chosen. And the 'broken branches' don't necessarily represent the Jews only, that is anyone who fails to choose to follow the Lord but be 'lukewarm' or cold in their Walk, or 'Path to Salvation' as some of you may call it. It said to in verse 20 that becuase of their unbelief they were broken off, which means anyone who does not believe in Christ and doesn't do the Will of the Father can be broken off. Then in verse 21 it says "For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest He also spare not thee." In other words, if God can even cut off some of His original children from the Tree of Life cause of unbelief or failing to do His Will, don't think He won't do it with us (Gentiles) either.

[Archbishop 10-K]

[quote]"In other words, if God can even cut off some of His original children from the Tree of Life cause of unbelief or failing to do His Will, don't think He won't do it with us (Gentiles) either."[/quote]

What about that part where Christ said "and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it"?

[quote]I support Israel cause they are still God's chosen people, period.[/quote]

So, does this mean we are religiously obligated to support Jews over Arabs? And, Israel simply does not consist of pure Mosaic-era Jews. Most of the denizens there are from New York. Not to mention that they don't even, for the most part, have a strong religious faith.

And, what does the term "chosen people" mean anyway? Does this mean special political treatment? Were the Greeks not a "chosen people" as well for bringing their philosophy to the world? Were the Romans not "chosen people" for spreading Christianity throughout the Empire? Is this title only for a certain race in a certain piece of land that upholds a secular government?

[Hananiah]

[quote name='Archbishop 10-K' date='Jun 21 2004, 01:21 PM'] What about that part where Christ said "and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it"? [/quote]
That portion of Romans is about individuals, not the Church as a whole. Individual Catholics can and do apostatize and are cut off from the tree of life every day.

[Archbishop 10-K]

[quote name='Hananiah' date='Jun 21 2004, 01:30 PM'] That portion of Romans is about individuals, not the Church as a whole. Individual Catholics can and do apostatize and are cut off from the tree of life every day. [/quote]
Oh, right. I misread and thought Archangel Raphael was talking about all Jews or all Gentiles being cut off from the Tree of Life.

[Ellenita]

[quote]It must be remembered that it was the Arabs who shed first blood here and so they have to accept the consequences of Israel defending itself.[/quote]

Actually I believe the people within the Zionist movement - who were presumably Jewish - used bombs in Palestine when it was a British protectorate in order to 'kick the British out' and so speed up the possibility of the formation of the (secular) state of Israel......one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter....

Britain of course abstained in the vote in the UN on the creation of the state of Israel in 1948 - though an argument that abstaining is a vote against is somewhat justified, especially given the treatment by the British towards Jewish survivors from the concentration camps in Europe trying to get into Palestine which was deplorable. The UK has traditionally been seen as more pro arab ever since...

[MorphRC]

[quote name='Archangel Raphael' date='Jun 22 2004, 03:29 AM'] Sounds like you got some problems with the Jews my friend... I'll pray for ya. [/quote]
1: Since Ive stopped being christian, Ive been less biased and more appreciating towards Jews.
2: I have a problem with what they're doing not who they are
3: Dont pray for me
4: Dont patrinize me

ty

[MorphRC]

[quote name='Hananiah' date='Jun 22 2004, 03:47 AM'] Morph, I was talking about what happened in 1948, not in Biblical times. [/quote]
You cant seperate what happened from 1948 from the Past, the whole point of the invasion was for Jews to have they're land back given by God to abraham, and finally stepped upon by Joshua, however due to their disbelief in the Messiah that covenant is broken and now you CHRISTIANS are the true heirs of Israel, Judah and so on. Yet you give what God gave you away like its nothing.